FPS?

AtticusFinch · #1 10-26-2005, 07:40 PM

I'll state up front that I think my flop bet should have been a little higher. Comments on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (9 handed) wacki's version of bison

Button (t18470)
SB (t9574)
BB (t46265)
UTG (t13800)
UTG+1 (t35655)
Hero (t21643)
MP2 (t32970)
MP3 (t26401)
CO (t16845)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to t2400, MP2 calls t2400, 4 folds, BB calls t1600.

Flop: (t6800) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t3200, MP2 folds, BB calls t3200.

Turn: (t13200) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

#2 10-26-2005, 07:46 PM

I myself wouldn't check the turn, I mean, why would you fear that 4 dropping right there? Someone with AJ or an overpair right now is going to feel suspicious, and if they have that and a flush card drops, you are getting no more money out of those hands. Add on top of that you are giving someone with a jack in their hand a free card to beat you!

On the other hand, any decent player who is drawing to the flush will see that check there, and might come to the conclusion that even if they hit their flush, it's not going to be good if it comes.

I'd continue with a 3200 bet here, hope villian takes it for weakness and raises me big so I can take down a big pot.

AtticusFinch · #3 10-26-2005, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

On the other hand, any decent player who is drawing to the flush will see that check there, and might come to the conclusion that even if they hit their flush, it's not going to be good if it comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't he put me on a flush draw of my own?

#4 10-26-2005, 08:24 PM

A line I've been using that works well is a smaller bet than your first one, as this mirrors a fish's "second barrel" and will either get cold called, giving you implied odds, or raised, and you can go from there.

but yall are better than I, so what do you think?

ajizzle · #5 10-26-2005, 08:28 PM

It depends. How is the BB playing? If he is playing his big stack like a pussy, then why not bet. If he is playing it like a big stack, then checking it is the best play really. Only 3 scare cards can hit the river, and it gives him a chance improve any number of hands, ie, flush, straight, another pair....

The only time I see an aggro player NOT betting the river would be if he improved his hand, but only slightly, like if he had 9T and the 9 or T of diamonds hit the river.

EverettKings · #6 10-26-2005, 09:27 PM

There's nothing wrong with this hand. In position, checking the turn is great. Out of position I'd hate it. But you open so many doors to more action this way. This isn't FPS at all, it's more standard than anything.

I mean, what could he pay you off with on a turn bet? His range on the flop is quite wide and includes diamonds, mid pairs, AJ type hands, etc. Why not represent a missed AK or other scared hand and go from there? If he makes a flush or straight theres almost no chance of you not getting doubled through.

That was a lot of rambling to say yes, I like it.

#7 10-26-2005, 09:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

On the other hand, any decent player who is drawing to the flush will see that check there, and might come to the conclusion that even if they hit their flush, it's not going to be good if it comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't he put me on a flush draw of my own?

[/ QUOTE ]

They might put you on one, but if one comes on the river, you are not getting any more out of it. I'd still rather make a bet here to get more money into the pot. And if they are chasing a flush and don't hit, they are not going to put any more into the pot on the river anyways, so it's best to go ahead and get some more chips in while you can, IMO.

#8 10-26-2005, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There's nothing wrong with this hand. In position, checking the turn is great. Out of position I'd hate it. But you open so many doors to more action this way. This isn't FPS at all, it's more standard than anything.

I mean, what could he pay you off with on a turn bet? His range on the flop is quite wide and includes diamonds, mid pairs, AJ type hands, etc. Why not represent a missed AK or other scared hand and go from there? If he makes a flush or straight theres almost no chance of you not getting doubled through.

That was a lot of rambling to say yes, I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is to say if you don't put a similar bet out now like you did on the flop, he isn't going to call with a flush draw or straight draw? And if he does hit his draw after your turn bet, he is either going to bet out on the river, or is going to check raise all in, either which gets most or all of his chips into the pot, while still getting chips in now if he misses.

And if Villian has a jack, he might have tried to check raise this turn, and if you check and a flush card hits, he is not going to be very interested in sticking around any more.

Sam T. · #9 10-26-2005, 09:51 PM

Everett is right. I really like the bet-check-bet line.

As for the idea of betting smaller on the turn to look like a big baby, I'm of two minds. First, it'll probably get called, so as a value bet it's fine. But I think it would reduce your chances of stacking this guy on the river. Also at the lower levels this play may work, but I don't know that it would against stronger opponents; they would immediately smell a rat.

I don't mind the flop bet. What's a couple of hundred chips between friends? (Unless you were thinking of t4k or something like that...)

#10 10-26-2005, 10:09 PM

Im glad that someone replied to my question, I've been wondering about it.

well, I dont play anything above $55s, so I guess Im talking about lower levels... but. If the better players dont know how good you are, this could also go the way of looking like a fish.

Am I wrong in thinking that? Or am I just putting too much faith in table image?