Bluff! Bluff! Good? Bad? Ugly?

ryanghall · #1 08-03-2005, 10:48 AM

Empire 400NL. Villain (24/0/1 in 20 hands) has $254, I have him covered. My image should be fairly tight.

I get the powerful Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the CO

There is a poster in MP.

3 folds, poster checks, 1 fold, I raise to $16. BB is the only caller.

Flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain checks, I bet $30, he calls.

Turn is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain bets $20. This looks like a blocking bet to me so I raise to $100, committing him.

Any good? Or just stupid?

gulebjorn · #2 08-03-2005, 10:58 AM

This is full ring? And you're raising Q8o? Are you sure about this?

I mean, I don't play that high and all, but what kind of flop are you looking for? Or are you just trying to pick up the blinds?

Anyway, I think I'm pretty much done with the hand after the flop call. But like I said, I don't play that high.

Anyway, after the flop call, I'm putting him on a flush draw, a 4 or mid-lo pair. In any case, I don't think you're getting rid of this guy before the river.

How about calling turn/bluffing a non-club river? If you have your mind set on bluffing him out of this pot, that is.

JMO.

passion · #3 08-03-2005, 11:01 AM

I say it is good if it worked and may offer you some opportunities to get paid later if it didn't.

That said, it is sort of reckless as you have no idea as to the strength of his holding. Most players are not going to lay down AK in this situation after they called 30 on the turn and bet 20 on the river (I don't think anyway). It is hard for me to imagine him calling the all-in with anything short of AK, AA, or a 4, but I don't know this player.

Passion

ryanghall · #4 08-03-2005, 11:05 AM

This is full ring, yes.

I did this because I'm raising $16 to win $10. Not bad considering I have 4 ways to win.

I can:

a) take it down right there, which happens at least half the time
b) take it down w/ a continuation bet
c) flop a monster
d) sense weakness and blow an opponent off a hand

d is obviously my worst case scenario but it's what I'm dealt so I'm trying it out.

Ryan

dtbog · #5 08-03-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Any good? Or just stupid?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I've pretty much stopped making these types of plays online.

I will do something like this from time to time in a live game -- both for metagame purposes and because I have much better reads on my opponents. However, in this case, you only have 20 hands on Villain, and another potential opponent is clearly on his first hand at the table (because he posted his blind). What if the poster calls? Now you have no idea whether or not he has a legitimate hand, because you don't know whether or not he's a fish, calling station, rock, anything.

What if Villain pushes on the turn? That sure is an expensive bluff with no pair + no draw.

I wait for a better spot. Also, I shut down when he calls the flop against an unknown, which is why I try not to get here in the first place.

fuzzbox · #6 08-03-2005, 11:15 AM

Interesting alright. It could be a flush draw, or a weak-king, or a mid pair.

I might call here and try to take it off him on the river, rather than trying for it now - because he might call with a flush draw.

Still - its not a bad play, and should take him off anything other than a good king or a 4. (assuming that he is any good, which I doubt due to his 20 bet into a 100 pot).

ryanghall · #7 08-03-2005, 12:50 PM

Villain pushed and I folded.

He showed KK.

I have lovely timing on these things.

Ryan

-Skeme- · #8 08-03-2005, 12:59 PM

Usually check-call on flop and small lead on turn is a big hand.

passion · #9 08-03-2005, 01:10 PM

You got what you deserved for trying to take that man's pot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ajmargarine · #10 08-03-2005, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any good? Or just stupid?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I've pretty much stopped making these types of plays online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've slowed myself down in doing plays like these. I'm not doing them with any 2 anymore, limiting myself to hands where I would have limped in anyway, (sc's for example). As OP says, you take a lot down preflop and you take down quite a bit of the rest with a continuation bet. It is +EV if you limit yourself to only firing one bullet, choosing whether it's best to fire on the flop or turn. (But, I've cut way way down on plays like these)