Collusion At The Casino?

JustToast · #1 05-20-2005, 09:23 AM

Last night I made the trek to the casino for a bit of 3/6 goofiness. For the first 45 minutes had a guy to my right who really truly overplayed pocket pairs so I figured just for a regular LAG and didnt give his bets much... weight.

Shortly after, new guy sits down to his right and they both decide to go for dinner (obviously friends). Back 30 minutes later the table started to change from Loose-Passive to Loose-Aggressive on the real-quick. 6 way capped pots and all because of something these guys were doing.

Question is, did I catch a couple of idiots or a few guys teaming at 3/6. I'm 99% sure they were playing together -- and doing well at that.

Guy #1 is in seat 5. Guy #2 is in seat 6.

Couple limpers to seat 5, he limps. Seat 6 raises, all limpers call (this is 3/6 after all) and Seat 5 re-raises. 6 then caps it and the entire table calls.

Now, normally a limp-reraise doesnt get my attention but these guys did this at least 10 times in the span of an hour and a half. After the flop they would run it one more time depending on how they liked their hands and if they wanted people out.

Seat 5 actually caught his 3-bet hands once in a while though. He showed down 72o, 92o, and 83o all limp re-raised pre-flop in this manner.

Now, i've heard of people running teams to blow people out or pump the pots, but 3/6? New to me. I had a chat with the floor after about the 8th time they pulled this and with the floor hovering they tightened up a bit but still snuck one in when the floor walked away (yes, surveillance means having the floor hover over the table at this casino it seems :P)

Any other tips on how to catch a cheater at the B&M? And better yet, what to do about it?

kiddj · #2 05-20-2005, 09:53 AM

I saw 2 guys doing a similar thing at a $1/$2. They weren't too slick though. I'm pretty sure when one of them got a high pocket pair, they showed it to the other one. Then the limp reraise trapping began. Then the one with the crap hand would fold on the turn so we didn't get to see his cards. I wasn't sure they were cheating, but I changed tables immediately. Then, a little later, someone still at the table told the floor manager about them since they kept doing it. When the casino employees were hovering around the table, i guess they stopped doing it.

Hellmouth · #3 05-20-2005, 10:18 AM

Online this kind of thing happens regurlarly. I usually tighten up to a very few starting hands (almost a no limit type starting hand selection) and then crack their asses multiple times when I get good hands.

Big pots are good if you have good hands. As long as you dont limp a bunch of garbage while this is going on the game can still be very profitable.

Greg

Derek in NYC · #4 05-20-2005, 10:59 AM

When does 1 villain fold out (ie, river)? If one villain does not fold out, this is a good time to demand to see the mucked hand at the showdown. If villain mucks before the showdown, it is hard to prove collusion. In my experience, locals are almost always the ones guilty of this in Vegas.

RacersEdge · #5 05-20-2005, 11:11 AM

If that's not collusion, then there is no such thing. One limp-rereaise with pure trash is all I need to see. Which casino was this BTW?

Al_Capone_Junior · #6 05-20-2005, 11:18 AM

From your description it seems that the collusion here was obvious. If the floor won't do anything about it, i.e. force them to play in different games, or kick them out, then I'd

a) never play in a game that contained these two players

b) start pointing out their obvious collusion to other saavy players who might also be playing in these games.

al

JustToast · #7 05-20-2005, 12:13 PM

This is a new poker room at Casino Niagara in Niagara Falls, Ontario. The floor was seriously interested as I think this was one of their first experiences with collusion. I left very shortly after I reported it to them.

Yeah the funny thing was the re-raiser with junk (72o, 83o, 92o) was hitting and showing down his crappy hands. That's what really made things crystal clear. A few other players at the table picked up on this but for some reason nobody got up to talk to the floor until I did. Also, nobody else left? I guess they didn't want to stop playing just because someone was stealing their money. Hehe.

If I see these guys again, i'll speak to the floor before they even play a hand. Any thoughts on whether it's bad form to stand up and say "Everyone, this guy who just sat down cheats at poker". I bet that would get a nice confrontation going.

kiddj · #8 05-20-2005, 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Any thoughts on whether it's bad form to stand up and say "Everyone, this guy who just sat down cheats at poker". I bet that would get a nice confrontation going.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should do that next time someone you know sits down and then try to be serious about it as long as possible.

JustToast · #9 05-20-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any thoughts on whether it's bad form to stand up and say "Everyone, this guy who just sat down cheats at poker". I bet that would get a nice confrontation going.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should do that next time someone you know sits down and then try to be serious about it as long as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh Heh.

mrkilla · #10 05-20-2005, 02:19 PM

ahh this sorta makes sense. i play up there alot [Fallsview and seneca havent been to the new low limit room yet though]
the dealers are new the floor is clueless (no rules posted etc). I'm with Al , start pointing it out as it happens to the others and the dealer too. Just keep your cool, they'll eventually get mad (or nervous) and the floor will eventually get over there.
There Dealers are terrible...