Has WSOP gotten too big?

Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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It's a great dream, but I don't think its plausible in reality. I just dont see how any points system can viably determine the top 200 players in a game where the real score is money won and you can't trust anyone on their true stats in that regard. Sure, you can accurately guage the top 200 performers of the past year in NL HE MT tourneys IF you organize the world into one recording body where each tournament is reported, but even then, a guy like Chip Reese won't get an invite because he's not interested in playing many tournaments.

On top of that, Harrah's isn't going to do anything to dissuade people from coming to Vegas. I'd love to see a select entry $25K tournament with a panel of experts selecting the competitors, but even then, the logistics are a nightmare: Who chooses the panelists? Can any panel really paint an accurate picture without local biases coming into the picture? Man, I'm getting depressed just thinking about this...

Gary

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Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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It's a great dream, but I don't think its plausible in reality. I just dont see how any points system can viably determine the top 200 players in a game where the real score is money won and you can't trust anyone on their true stats in that regard. Sure, you can accurately guage the top 200 performers of the past year in NL HE MT tourneys IF you organize the world into one recording body where each tournament is reported, but even then, a guy like Chip Reese won't get an invite because he's not interested in playing many tournaments.

On top of that, Harrah's isn't going to do anything to dissuade people from coming to Vegas. I'd love to see a select entry $25K tournament with a panel of experts selecting the competitors, but even then, the logistics are a nightmare: Who chooses the panelists? Can any panel really paint an accurate picture without local biases coming into the picture? Man, I'm getting depressed just thinking about this...

Gary

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Well, the points qualifier would have to be the circuit events in the year leading up to WSOP. To be fair there would need to be at least 25 events in order to "shake out the deadwood".

The Chip Reese thing is why I included the auto bids for all past WSOP main event winners. This wouldn't help CR but it would help guys like him but who have won the event and that's a fair trade off IMO.

[Autocratic]

In general, too many people talk about raising entry fees, citing inflation. I don't think enough people realize that when the WSOP first started, it was primarily rich businessmen and high rollers. Is that what we want the WSOP to be like now? We have more satellites now, but the higher the entry fee, the higher the satellite fee, and it's going to become less and less possible for the average college kid to have a shot at the big events, which makes poker less profitable as a whole.

[ohkanada]

No, it hasn't gotten too big.

Ken

[SNOWBALL138]

The WSOP never was and never will be a process whereby the best player in the world is determined. This is just silly.

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Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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no. the point of the WSOP ME now is that anyone who can afford it, and is of age, can play. Not to showcase old sharks going at it for whatever reason. Also, these professional tournament players have EV higher for the more amateurs who enter the event. Greg Raymer and others have discussed this concept. Also, if you wanted to exclude the average person, make the price $250,000, or $1,000,000. $25,000 isn't going to limit it that much. The tournament of champions is an interesting tournament in which good players spar with eachother, however, they are freerolled into it, so they don't have to pay to play in what is essentially a very hard competitive field, something they would not be apt to do otherwise. If you want to see pros in the WSOP playing in a very small field, with other experts, watch the Kansas City Lowball tournament. Your idea, however, for these reasons, and the massive amounts of money the casino gets from it, will never happen. Sorry.

Watching the episodes on ESPN tues night, the players looked like the people I see at the Aladdin buffet who jump from their seats excited when more crab legs are brought to the line.

[DDH]

The main draw of the Main Event is that anyone with ten grand and an age over 21 can enter and have a chance to win. That is the prestige of it. That you're facing the largest field, for the largest prize pool. Its never meant to decide who's the best, because even with your guidleines, you won't get an answer to who's the best. Just who's the best that week.

I think, that limiting the the entries like this would take a lot away from the WSOP, you'd find your average player less and less interested in it, I mean, why bother if you have no chance of playing?

There's nothing wrong with the WSOP as it is. I agree that there should be a cap on the number of entrents, just from the standpoint of what's feasible for Harrah's to accomodate. I mean, a tourney with 10,000 people (which will never happen) would be impossible to run. But fromt he standpoint of who can enter and play? It should be anyone who's over 21 and can produce the buy in, whether through cash or an internet sattelite. Why? This is poker. We're all here to have fuin and try and make some money. There's nothing elitest about what we're doing here. Everyone has a chance to make a lot of money by playing in the WSOP. Everyone. From Doyle Brunson, to that guy sitting next to you in the 5/10 game. That's what makes the Main Event what it is. Not the fact that its This Grand Title. But that anyone can sit down and play for the largest prize in poker and anyone can win.

No, it hasn't. I think the appeal is that anyone can win. If you are looking to crown a "World Champion", perhaps a point system like Toyota Player of the Year Award or even a 10K H.O.R.S.E event to truly test one's poker abilities.