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#1
11-09-2005, 07:01 PM
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Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
Humans are animals with a highly developed brain. Animals in the wild do whatever they please. If a lion wants a zebra, no animal police arrest him for murder. Humans are animals with a highly developed brain. If we are animals then we should be able to do what we want, whenever we want.
Thousands of years ago human people realized this. The people who did just this were the smartest of the humans at the time. These people organized the chaos of humans into a group with the smartest people in charge. They used tactics to have people do just what needed to be done, and to keep the inferior humans in line. The tactics used were pressuring people by saying a force that no one controlled, controlled them, thus forming religion and gods. If this is true then all of the religions that were formed in the European/Middle Eastern area that developed into the main religions we have today, are just organizations with false backgrounds. Today we have science, science gives answers. Science can do DNA tests. Science can cause miracles to be broken down into science. If everything I have said is true, then the world we live in today is created around lies to stop people from doing whatever they want. Also, religion is a farce used to keep people organized and doing what people thousands of years ago thought was the right thing to do. 
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#2
11-09-2005, 07:08 PM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
I hope I'm not being too presumptuous here but I think most atheists believe that religion was started to help explain what we could not explain at the time. The corruption came later as religious leaders gained more power within their societies.
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#3
11-09-2005, 08:18 PM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
Is this how an athiest thinks? [/ QUOTE ] All atheists think differently. No one has exactly the same beliefs, even Christians think differently about a lot of things. It just happens that atheists' beliefs arent based on the same text, so there's going to be a bit more diversity. I can, however, tell you how this atheist thinks (and a pre-emptive hush to anyone bringing up my earlier self-procliamed agnosticism; atheism is more appropriate here for reasons that are unimportant) [ QUOTE ] If we are animals then we should be able to do what we want, whenever we want. [/ QUOTE ] That's REALLY simplifying it. There's a problem that comes into play when I want someone else to not do what he wants. This is an argument far too broad and far too overwhelming for me to even begin to address, as it constitutes all of moral philosophy, political theory, economics, etc etc. [ QUOTE ] The tactics used were pressuring people by saying a force that no one controlled, controlled them, thus forming religion and gods. [/ QUOTE ] There's more to religion than controlling the masses. Let's not forget that religion and faith offer the belief in immortality...that's a pretty excellent reason for religion to exist! It offers an end to the torment the first men had when they became intelligent enough to realize that eventually, they would die. And honestly, who wouldn't want to believe that? I can't say with much assurance how exactly this happened. I wasn't there. But given the way rumors, fish stories, and urban legends circulate and change today, in a world where written and recorded information exists so readily, it is, imho, reasonable to believe that religion had a similar nature. Especially considering how much of it passed through an "oral transmission" phase. Religion inspires creativity. Parables, epics, paintings; all of these things are part of the human attempt to explain life. Can it be used as a masses-controlling weapon? I believe so. I believe the Catholic church's history has some excellent examples of that. [ QUOTE ] Today we have science, science gives answers. [/ QUOTE ] Science gives THEORIES. NOTHING gives answers. No atheist worth his salt should believe that science offers certainty. Science is just our collective deductions based on observable, understandable, empirical evidence. It is far from perfect. Scientific beliefs change all the time. "Science" is not a thing to worship by any means, it's just people trying to figure things out. The analogy atheist:science::christian:god is false. Atheists don't have a god, or an equivalent to god. That's why we're called atheists! Nothing is infallible to us. Life isn't perfect and neither are our beliefs. We are wrong about many things, and we know this. [ QUOTE ] If everything I have said is true, then the world we live in today is created around lies to stop people from doing whatever they want. [/ QUOTE ] WOW is this complicated. There are lots of social, psychological, philosophical, historical, and other reasons why society is the way it is. This is something for scholars to compose volumes about; not answerable in a 2+2 forum.
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#4
11-09-2005, 08:19 PM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
I hope I'm not being too presumptuous here but I think most atheists believe that religion was started to help explain what we could not explain at the time. The corruption came later as religious leaders gained more power within their societies. [/ QUOTE ] Very general, but yes, I'd agree with that.
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#5
11-09-2005, 09:38 PM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
People are affected by the concept of society. If they are ignorant about that then they can read or become informed about how the mind becomes conditioned. If they don't have access to books to become aware of what enslaves them then that should be a priority of our leaders, providing words to point in the direction of what freedom from enslavement is. This is the basic role of religion. Some people believe the actual religious text to be truth instead of the truth that the text points to which is why people fight over what religion is right. If our leaders are selfish or ignorant themselves then new leaders will eventually step into leadership roles as personal freedom is an intrinsic, driving intention. What you say is true I think, but what's the next step or how does this conditioning that society imprints on those who are affected by it, affect you now that you know it's B.S.?
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#6
11-10-2005, 12:01 AM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
WOW is this complicated. There are lots of social, psychological, philosophical, historical, and other reasons why society is the way it is. This is something for scholars to compose volumes about; not answerable in a 2+2 forum. [/ QUOTE ] well i am a 21 year old who has been doing nothing but thinking about poker. I'm sure Phil Ivey or Doyle Brunson don't think poker every second of every day and this type of life theory is what I think about. I always look at this site and this 2+2 forum. This forum is the one that made me start thinking about this type of behavior(religion) I think i need some sort of philosophy class or some sort of forum for this type of thinking. If you know of any books, websites, forums, etc. please respond
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#7
11-10-2005, 01:27 AM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
I think you are missing something key. Animals don't do whatever they want. Dogs and lions live in packs (techincally prides for lions) and each individual doesn't do whatever it wants. A pecking order is established and then the members usually behave accordingly. They don't need religous control to enforce this, it is very natural, and probably more like morality. I doubt there was ever any chaos with many individuals working alone and doing whatever they want. We are very much a pack animal and probably were long before we were human.
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#8
11-10-2005, 02:49 AM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
If we are animals then we should be able to do what we want, whenever we want. [/ QUOTE ] I see Cooker has commented on some of your premises, I'll focus on some of the logic. Even if we grant your premise about other animals, it doesn't follow that we acquire their properties just because we are another form of animal. "Birds are animals". "Birds can Fly" "We're animals" "We should be able to fly" The flying is a property of 'bird' not of the general category 'animal' so it doesn't flow thru. In your argument you've committed an equivocation error, you use the term animal but in two different ways. As "other animals" and as "all animals including us", if you substitute the definitions I just wrote for your two uses of animal you will see you've arrived at the 'bird' situation. hope that helps. glad you're enjoying the forum. luckyme
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#9
11-10-2005, 03:03 AM
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Re: Is this how an athiest thinks? Its what i feel at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
I hope I'm not being too presumptuous here but I think most atheists believe that religion was started to help explain what we could not explain at the time. The corruption came later as religious leaders gained more power within their societies. [/ QUOTE ] This is much more reasonable than the OP.
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