Becoming a professional player

[Blarg]

I would have to say, most everything.

And...what is enabling these guys to accomplish that? What on earth kind of loans are these guys getting?

Most people do not have or get scholarships or anything remotely like the student aid you are describing, so relating that kind of whopping good fortune as attainable for all or even a particularly large percentage of college kids or people who want to attend college is misleading.

School providing room and board and even a stipend? Usually you pay school, it doesn't pay you. 30k AFTER TAX money per year, and then again three more times, for an 18-year-old kid being relatively easy to come by? I have to admit I have no idea how those circumstances could come about, as the vast majority of Americans with full time jobs who already have college educations would have difficulty scraping up $30k after taxes per year, especially if they had to do it next year too. And the number of college age kids who can is proportionally vanishingly small in comparison to that. Most 18 year olds can't even make 30k a year, much less clear it after taxes and then still be able to clear it after living expenses, if they're on their own, and probably even if they're not.

20 hours a week working contributes next to nothing to college for most people, going toward living expenses, and not all of them at that. The average college age kid has minimum wage level skills and employment opportunities. Even working 40 hours a week isn't going to put a lot of spare change in his pocket.

I'm seeing talk of poor people all being drunks and having new cars and wearing $75 nikes in this thread, and it makes me think a lot of people here have absolutely no idea what's going on outside their extremely tiny and very protected frame of reference. I've met an awful lot of people like that, and been good friends with some.

Here's an example I'm put in mind of when I was going to college and was standing out in the rain waiting for the bus and getting soaked. My very rich friend was there with me(I've had quite a few of those), and he asked me why I wasn't wearing a jacket. I told him I couldn't afford one. He asked me, Why don't you buy one?

Zoom....right over his head. His reality was not about to disturbed by anyone else's, least of all by the likes of me, even when contrary evidence was right in front of his face. Reality existed for him only at his convenience.

That's why discussions like this are usually futile. Generally if the well off think of others at all or even find it actually possible to do so, they do so just long enough to caricaturize and demonize them, and then promptly and definitively forget about them, if those people even really crossed their thresholds of consciousness in the first place.

[XChamp]

Go to any large state school you can think of and look at their estimates for total cost to attend (including room and board). It will run about 15k. two 15 week semesters leaves 22 other weeks for full time work, plus part time during those 30 weeks in school. That's about 1600 hours of work for the year. at $10/hr and you end up with 16k before taxes. That's not enough, so you need to take out a loan. http://www.loantolearn.com/products/loan_to_learn.asp
For a 20k loan you pay $115 a month while in school. that shouldn't be too hard since you're making at least $400 a month even if you're working min wage.

Yes, it's hard, but it's still doable.

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm seeing talk of poor people all being drunks and having new cars and wearing $75 nikes in this thread, and it makes me think a lot of people here have absolutely no idea what's going on outside their extremely tiny and very protected frame of reference. I've met an awful lot of people like that, and been good friends with some.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can argue that a whole heck of a lot of people don't buy a whole heck of a lot of crap they don't need and then whine that they can't afford anything if you want. I went to state college while working 30+ hours a week and pretty much used my credit cards as my student loan. I drove an old paid-for car and was forced to learn how to fix cars because I usually couldn't afford to pay a professional mechanic to fix things. I didn't have a new TV or cable or anything else which a lot of people consider to be bare necessities nowadays. A friend of mine went to a state college too and now has a good job, but five years later he still has a bit of his student loans left.

I'll say it again: if someone really wants to go to college, they usually can if they are willing to give up other things. And if someone thinks a loan for a nice car (or whatever) is more important than a loan for their college education, then boo hoo if they whine about their choice years later.

And THEN there are the numerous tech schools around that are even cheaper where people can still learn a very good trade from. Or getting good training in the armed forces like my brother who signed away five years of his life for electronics training in the Marines, and without any computer degrees is now a head technical administrator for 11 hospitals in Chicago.

In fact, for awhile he turned into one of the people I'm talking about. He would make good bucks but have nothing to show for it until I pointed out how much he was spending on restaurants and on his favorite imported beer and other things that all add up.

And you said you went to college while sacrificing such things as affording a jacket. I went to college and had a decent leather jacket -- only because my brother gave me his old one.

"Extremely tiny and very protected frame of reference," indeed. You may as well say there's no way anyone can become a professional poker player if all they can afford when starting out is reading on here for free and playing microlimits.

[helpmeout]

Dont try to convince americans that they arent great and their country isnt perfect, its just not gonna happen.

The media has them brainwashed from birth.

Capitalism sucks and America is the capitalist nation of the world.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Capitalism sucks and America is the capitalist nation of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, moderate capitalism doesn't suck. Or well, a solid democracy using a capitalist economic system is about the best government we've tried so far. (Or least bad, if you look at it like that.)

Giving capitalism totally free reign and trusting that God (renamed to the Invisible Hand) will regulate the market is... Well...

There are hundreds of things that are pretty much the same here as in the US. Quite often borrowed from the US, or we both took it from the same country, usually France or England. But when asked to contrast the differences I highlighted what I felt were important differences. I'm a very enthusiastic Swede, I feel that it's a great corner of the world to live in. Sorry if I became too enthusiatic.

Education and health care were the reasons I decided years ago to not move to the US. I was very tempted for years, because frankly I could make more money living in the US than here.

But I can make more than I need here, and a social and medical safety net is nice to have. (And electricity in the outlet, LA was the most likely destination for me, and I am sure glad I didn't move.)

[Mr. Graff]

[ QUOTE ]
You suggest that tossing one in five of our citizens to the wolves would better our society? For who would our society be better, and by what measure?

[/ QUOTE ]
Where did I say anything that can be interpreted in that way? I just think it is silly for a government to take on the role as provider. It creates weakness, less wealth for everyone and it polutes vision. And it would be easier to take care of those people who are REALLY disadvantaged, like people with physical disabilities, malnourished children etc. because we will have more wealth to do it.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Where did I say anything that can be interpreted in that way? I just think it is silly for a government to take on the role as provider. It creates weakness, less wealth for everyone and it polutes vision. And it would be easier to take care of those people who are REALLY disadvantaged, like people with physical disabilities, malnourished children etc. because we will have more wealth to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said that the US balance with 12% below the poverty line created a more dynamic society. I estimate that another chunk is what we'd call 'piss poor', so in total about one in five americans has already been tossed to the wolves.

They have a way higher average consumer index, but their median consumer index is lower than the Swedish. There are alot of people with <$10,000 to spend for everyone with $2,000,000,000 to spend. (200,000 actually.) Even talking about an average becomes weird when such a large piece of the cake is concentrated to extreme outliers. When data looks like this it's usually frowned upon to talk about an arithmetic average without also showing how skewed the sample is. (Quartiles or deciles should be included, perhaps a box-and-whisker diagram to illustrate data. I'd love to see that actually, I wonder if the average line would end up to the right of the box. (Ie, is 75% of all americans less wealthy than the 'average' american.))

Small business owners don't have it one iota easier in the US than here.

There is a near perfect correlation between income gaps in a country and crime rate in that country.

Atleast the american model of free capitalism doesn't create more wealth for everyone, it creates more wealth for the top few percent. And the wealth that is created is demonstrably not spend in the fields you said would be better off.

I agree that it's silly for the government to (in part) act as provider. It's not a good system. But it's still a better system than any of the alternatives.

[Exsubmariner]

I just don't understand how people with talent have this innate tendency to f&#@ up eveything they have going for them. It breaks my heart. You are looking into the abyss, boy. You will either get mad and the survival instinct will kick in or your going to end up dead. If not dead, then being in pain for a long slow decline. Just another story about what could have been. Here's a tip, take your head out of your a$$ and get your life str8! The world doesn't need more victims. It has enough. There is no nobility in victimhood. At the very least, stop pissing me off by trying to share your sorrows. I have struggled and struggled with my life to come out ahead in many less than equitable situations. I have found it got easier if I didn't create needless drama for myself by acting stupid. Just because you are talented at one thing or another doesn't mean you have the right to be a total a$$head in all other areas of your existance. There are winners out there who can succeed in poker or anything else they put their minds to. They do it through hard work and perserverence. Go forth and do likewise.