I don't like any street here with JJ.

Stealthy · #1 11-02-2005, 08:19 PM

Rip this one to shreds guys I think I played this one horrible! Vilain here is 30/12/4 so quite agro, also I had been catching a few cards before this hand and running over the table and taking a lot of pots without a showdown, so he may think I have been at it!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Dis I get every street wrong or am I being to harsh on myself? Looking back on it in the cold light of day it looks pretty ugly to me!

El Ishmael · #2 11-02-2005, 08:26 PM

Cap preflop vs. this guy. Rest looks okay.

#3 11-02-2005, 08:37 PM

I would raise his 3-bet.

PokerSparky · #4 11-02-2005, 08:39 PM

I'm assuming by the tone that you didn't win this hand, but I don't think you played it horribly. By the river, you aren't beating too many legit three-betting hands, but I like a call down after the flop three-bet given the table image you gave of yourself.

Stealthy · #5 11-02-2005, 08:57 PM

I think my main gripe here with my play is that after the flop 3 bet I treated it like a way ahead or way behind play whilst I am not sure wheteher it was right to do so. I am still very inexperienced at limit play although I know a lot of theory but felt that there was a better way to go. These were my main concerns.

1. Giving up the lead - this may have been unavoidable given his aggression but I HATE not being the one betting!

2. Akin to 1. I gave him the chance of both a free turn and free show-down when I had an overpair when he might have been bluffing or had a worse pair - but maybe this is also unavoidable as I don't want to spew against a higher PP.

3. I really hate calling with a made hand! - damn just repeating myself now.

Maybe way ahead/way behind was right. I just don't know which might be my biggest worry - not knowing if I played it OK or not.

Stop rambling, idiot.

PokerSparky · #6 11-02-2005, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]

1. Giving up the lead - this may have been unavoidable given his aggression but I HATE not being the one betting!

2. Akin to 1. I gave him the chance of both a free turn and free show-down when I had an overpair when he might have been bluffing or had a worse pair - but maybe this is also unavoidable as I don't want to spew against a higher PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bet/fold on the river may have been a better play, but I hate folding this on the river, so I usually check/call, which I'm sure may with think is weak.

Stealthy · #7 11-02-2005, 09:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1. Giving up the lead - this may have been unavoidable given his aggression but I HATE not being the one betting!

2. Akin to 1. I gave him the chance of both a free turn and free show-down when I had an overpair when he might have been bluffing or had a worse pair - but maybe this is also unavoidable as I don't want to spew against a higher PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bet/fold on the river may have been a better play, but I hate folding this on the river, so I usually check call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely we could not be thinking of bet/folding here to a boarderline maniac? If I did bet the river here can I really fold safely to such an aggressive player?

PokerSparky · #8 11-02-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1. Giving up the lead - this may have been unavoidable given his aggression but I HATE not being the one betting!

2. Akin to 1. I gave him the chance of both a free turn and free show-down when I had an overpair when he might have been bluffing or had a worse pair - but maybe this is also unavoidable as I don't want to spew against a higher PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bet/fold on the river may have been a better play, but I hate folding this on the river, so I usually check call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely we could not be thinking of bet/folding here to a boarderline maniac? If I did bet the river here can I really fold safely to such an aggressive player?

[/ QUOTE ]

A 30/12/4 player isn't even close a maniac. In fact, I'd guess villain is a winning player at this level if the read is correct.

#9 11-02-2005, 10:40 PM

I started to grunch, but I couldn't decide--I was biased by your header (either you're pissed because you got fishy and lost, or you were pissed because you were ahead and didn't bet enough). Either way, the goal was to get it to showdown.

This is something I have learned by reading posts in this forum: If you believe the guy is bluffing, then he is just paying you off by your passive inducement of his betting. Otherwise, you are getting into a spew-fest and losing to a legitimate hand--in those cases you are paying a lot more for your showdown. There were plenty of hands that can beat you, which is the purpose of getting to the showdown and seeing what he 3-bets pre-flop, and plays aggressively post-flop with.

Also, I was going to say cap pre-flop--sometimes I don't with JJ, but villain's pfr is a bit high, so go for it. Post-flop may have turned out a world different.

RatFink · #10 11-02-2005, 11:02 PM

Not sure this could be considered WA/WB unless he has an 8 or a lower PP which would not seem to be the case considering PF action. But I get confused sometimes on WA/WB.