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#1
11-04-2005, 03:35 PM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose a bigger issue is whether fighting really does have anyplace in hockey, I would argue that it does, but that the rules of engagement have become a bit muddled. [/ QUOTE ] No comment on the story, except Lawyers suck, and they lost this one. Anyhow... I think fighting definitely has a place in hockey. The first & foremost role is that of protection - not just for stars, but guys who, for whatever reason, cannot protect themselves. Stars because they're needed on the ice, little guys because they can get hurt. Second, is to fire up the team & the home crowd. This is when your two enforcers drop 'em at centre ice right at the face-off. Silly, but fun. The third reason is to "show 'em you won't be embarrassed". This is stupid. Reference Atlanta losing to Leafs, and Tampa Bay. They got slaughtered, and then started running guys & starting fights. There's no place for this in hockey, because it serves no purpose. I think, as far as the Rules of engagement go, they're pretty clear with the players. If you lay a big hit on a star player, expect to fight. If you're the enforcer, you're going to talk about it before it happens anyway. And everyone knows about the third reason, and anyone can see it coming. The problem is with the observers of the game - refs, officials, media, etc. who make fighting out to be something it's not. The instigator rule is the worst thing in hockey. Wayne Gretzky could not have performed the way he did in Edmonton if Dave Semenko wasn't skating around to beat the crap out of anyone who touched Gretzky. 
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#2
11-04-2005, 04:15 PM
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Re: Hockey
Ottawa has this sort of dynamic with McGrattan. Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson and Havlat are all "untouchable" if you don't want to have to deal with McGrattan. As soon as you see one of those guys take a cheap shot, the next shift McGrattan is one the ice looking to fight. You mess with Ottawa's stars, you have to deal with McGrattan. He has next to no hockey skill, but I don't think he has lost a fight yet this year. He's broken a few noses and bloodied quite a few faces already this year. He's the player that Ottawa has been looking for.
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#3
11-04-2005, 06:28 PM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
Ottawa has this sort of dynamic with McGrattan. Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson and Havlat are all "untouchable" if you don't want to have to deal with McGrattan. As soon as you see one of those guys take a cheap shot, the next shift McGrattan is one the ice looking to fight. You mess with Ottawa's stars, you have to deal with McGrattan. He has next to no hockey skill, but I don't think he has lost a fight yet this year. He's broken a few noses and bloodied quite a few faces already this year. He's the player that Ottawa has been looking for. [/ QUOTE ] In my opinion, this type of player has no place in the NHL now. McGratton is a thug. If Ottawa wants to be tougher, they need more guys like Heatley. This has been the difference between Ottawa & TO in the playoffs - not that our tough guy could beat up your tough guy, but that the 20 guys on the ice were tougher as a group than the Sens. With the new salary cap, there's no place for a guy that can't help your team win games. That's why a guy like Domi is so valuable - he can fight, and has some hockey skill. Not a lot, but he's probably the best of the enforcers. NJ dumped their enforcer (Oliwa), because they had cap problems, and couldn't lock up $450,000 on a guy that had only one use. Soon enough, I think you'll see a return to the old old time hockey, where your fighters were also valuable players. In the 60's, you dressed less players, so you couldn't have a 4th liner that just fought.
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#5
11-04-2005, 10:15 PM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
how does a player who can fight help his team? how does winning a fight help a team win a game? do you mean injuring another player and taking him out of the game? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not really sure if you understood my post... I'm saying that a guy who just fights is not much help to his team. However, as a secondary skill, it's useful for a couple reasons - getting the crowd in to the game/firing up your team, and protecting a teammate. The opposition may hesitate before throwing a big hit on a star, if they know they're going to have to fight someone afterwards. Players rarely get injured in fights, although it does happen. Most often, they get injured from late or dirty hits. The type of hit you may think twice about if you know there's a fight coming after you do it.
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#6
11-05-2005, 07:49 AM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
Ottawa has this sort of dynamic with McGrattan. Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson and Havlat are all "untouchable" if you don't want to have to deal with McGrattan. As soon as you see one of those guys take a cheap shot, the next shift McGrattan is one the ice looking to fight. You mess with Ottawa's stars, you have to deal with McGrattan. He has next to no hockey skill, but I don't think he has lost a fight yet this year. He's broken a few noses and bloodied quite a few faces already this year. He's the player that Ottawa has been looking for. [/ QUOTE ] Habs just took over first tonight. Don't quite think they can maintain this pace, but it's fun right now. You guys have probably all seen this, but I love it. It's a Leafs ad. 
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#7
11-04-2005, 04:30 PM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
The third reason is to "show 'em you won't be embarrassed". This is stupid. Reference Atlanta losing to Leafs, and Tampa Bay. They got slaughtered, and then started running guys & starting fights. There's no place for this in hockey, because it serves no purpose. I think, as far as the Rules of engagement go, they're pretty clear with the players. [/ QUOTE ] This third point speaks to what I meant, I guess. I was thinking of things like the Atlanta incident, and naturally of the Vancouver incident, where it was intimated that Crawford was egging his guys onto Moore even after Moore had dropped gloves with a member of the Canucks. I know Hartley was also roundly criticized for what happened in Atlanta. I feel the same way that you do, pretty much to a T, agree with your post completely. I think the enforcer is necessary in a sport where people carry big sticks and skate at high speed, and that the "get the crowd going" show is pretty harmless and a lot of fun for fans. But when coaches start sending guys out with what seems like clear intent to injure, that's a problem. Maybe I'm just trying to keep this thread on the front page... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#8
11-04-2005, 05:35 PM
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Re: Hockey
[ QUOTE ]
But when coaches start sending guys out with what seems like clear intent to injure, that's a problem. [/ QUOTE ] This is a problem, but I think this is a bigger problem in the NFL. [ QUOTE ] Maybe I'm just trying to keep this thread on the front page... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] As long as its about hockey and not the NBA [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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