General Omaha 8ob questions

[twistedbeats]

1) on the flop, you and one other player each have top two. you have a backdoor low draw, he has a backdoor flush draw. who's "ahead?"

2) you both have nut low made on the flop. you have a backdoor flushdraw plus an overpair. your opponent has 4 to the flush and low backup. are you behind? by how much?

3) why the hell can't i stop coming in for a pot sized raise with KKxx?

[amp]

1) The top two with backdoor low is usually ahead, but it ranges from slight favorite to coinflip depending on the sidecards.

2) The A2 with four-flush is slightly ahead on the merits of his counterfeit protection. However, if you have one of his flush cards in your hand, you've pulled ahead.

3) [insert PLO/8 advice here]

O)))

[Buzz]

Twisted - I like amp's answers and don't really have much to add. My perspective is only slightly different.

1) on the flop, you and one other player each have top two. you have a backdoor low draw, he has a backdoor flush draw. who's "ahead?"

You haven’t indicated if you hold a card in your opponent’s suit or not. Assuming you don’t have a card in your opponent’s suit, and also assuming your opponent does hot hold a low card you might need, I figure you are the favorite by 430 to 390 or by about 1.103 to 1. You and your opponent are expected to chop approximately 3/4 of the possible outcomes. Of the other 1/4, it’s about four times as likely for you to win for low while tying for high and thus end up with 3/4 or the pot as it is for your opponent to scoop with the flush and with no low possible.

When you have a card in your opponent’s suit, your odds are slightly (about 2%) better than indicated above, 434.5 to 385.5 or about 1.127 to 1.

Backdoor low draws do not add much value to your hand, IMHO, especially without counterfeit protection. When you do not have counterfeit protection, there are only a maximum of (20*16)/2 or 160 (out of 990) two card combinations that make a back door low for you. Odds are about 5 to 1 against your making it. Of course a back-door low draw is nice as an extra when you have something else going for the hand. You may be getting odds to draw for a back-door low, particularly if there was pre-flop raising.

Backdoor flush draws add even less value, IMHO. When you have only two cards in the flush suit, there are 10*9/2 or 45 (out of 990) two card combinations that make a back door flush for you and some of them pair the board. Odds are about 21 to 1 against your making it. (When you have three cards in the flush suit the odds become about 26.5 to 1 against your making the back-door flush). Of course it's nice as a re-draw when you have also flopped a set, a straight, or the nut low.

Just my opinion.

2) you both have nut low made on the flop. you have a backdoor flushdraw plus an overpair. your opponent has 4 to the flush and low backup. are you behind? by how much?

This one is tougher and depends more on whether the fourth card in your opponents hand is higher or lower than your overpair than on the flush possibilities.

For example, if we make the flop 8h6h3c, give you Ac2cQsQd, and give your opponent Ah2h7sKd, then you are the underdog by 363.75 to 456.25 or about 0.80 to 1.

On the other hand, if we make the flop 8h6h3c, give you Ac2cQsQd, and give your opponent Ah2h7sJd, then you are favored by 415.5 to 404.5 or about 1.03 to 1

(Never a guarantee my math is correct. Someone usually is kind enough to correct me when it isn't).

When you have a card in your opponent’s suit, your chances are even better than indicated above.

3) why the hell can't i stop coming in for a pot sized raise with KKxx?

My guess is you don’t really want to stop.

Buzz

[chaos]

I think KKxx unsuited is a very marginal hand unless the xx are premium low cards (e.g. A2, A3). Save yourself some money and wait until they are either single or double suited.