$109 - JJ preflop - I'm not crazy! You're the one that's crazy! - Page 2

microbet · #11 12-16-2005, 01:10 PM

Before I called the big bet the 2p2er had only called the raise to 50.

I am definitely willing to bet this tourney that this 2p2er reraises with QQ+.

tigerite · #12 12-16-2005, 01:11 PM

Yes I know that but the crazy donk was to act after him. Maybe he thought that 'the pot will be t125 if I call.. that donk is more likely to go over the top with Ax and I can isolate this guy to my left as he is likely to either re-push or call to his push'? Well it's something I would consider anyway. If you are absolutely sure he wouldn't take this line with AA-QQ then yes you do have to call here.

microbet · #13 12-16-2005, 01:12 PM

I'm sure you know, I mean reraises my first raise to 50.

Also, I don't know who they are other than their party name, so might not be a 2p2er, but plays like it.

Also, I don't mean to insult them by saying they don't reraise QQ+ or anything. I reraise QQ+ for sure in that spot.

tigerite · #14 12-16-2005, 01:17 PM

I do, I understand exactly what you are saying. There might be times it is correct to just call QQ+ there though if he has the same read on the donk you do. That's all I really mean. It's an absolute cast iron call if he has AK and I'm sure you know that it's not at all close.

Would you have reraised QQ+ even with your read on the donk and having a hunch he might have his eyes light up with such a juicy pot that he could push into? That's what I'm wondering. ABC poker play would dictate a raise to be mandatory here of course, but it's something I might do very occasionally to a solid player's raise behind me. It would be rare of course.

schwza · #15 12-16-2005, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian B is not well known. Is probably not a 2p2er. Lost 1/2 his stack in a way that wasn't horribly donkish, but not well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the read of the pusher before he pushes.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe he thought that 'the pot will be t125 if I call.. that donk is more likely to go over the top with Ax and I can isolate this guy to my left as he is likely to either re-push or call to his push'?

[/ QUOTE ]

you really think that from the above read the 2p2er is going to start making weird plays like cold-calling KK just because he thinks that the guy next to him - whose big hand "wasn't horribly donkish, but not well played" - is going to auto-push Ax? that seems like a real reach. i need the guys left to act to be way more out of line before i'm going to start designing my pre-flop lines around them.

Jman28 · #16 12-16-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well no, I wouldn't fold if it was HU with the donk! But the fact that the 2p2er has called his raise makes me intently worried. If 2p2er had limped, you raised, and donk had pushed - my chips go in with the quickness. But that didn't happen here. C'mon you know I am not saying you should fold just because you've only put 50 chips into the pot. Hell I called a push at level 1 with AK to a particularly donky donk yesterday, in fact I re-pushed all in, he had KTs and MHWG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize that, and I wasn't even saying that a call is right here.

All I'm saying is, the fact that you put X chips into the pot should have nothing to do with your decision whatsoever.

microbet · #17 12-16-2005, 01:50 PM

Yeah, like schwa said. The short stack was a bit donkish, but not a crazy allin no matter what maniac. I know there are such players about. I played a guy last night in a separate game who I've played 2 tournaments with for a total of 7 hands.

What VillianB did before was just limp when he shouldn't have, overplay it a bit when he hit a piece, and make a bad river bet into a trap.

microbet · #18 12-16-2005, 01:54 PM

I've played a lot of games with villianA and have watched him pretty carefully.

bigt439 · #19 12-16-2005, 02:26 PM

Looks fine. I'm not folding here, but I would be pushing. Dude's probably not calling with TT or AJ so why not make him consider folding AK... and, maaaaaaaybe, QQ (which he rarely has IMO, but probably more than you're saying). I agree he rarely has AA or KK.

tigerite · #20 12-16-2005, 02:26 PM

Ah. I see. Sorry I thought you meant he was a total nutter and yes I've seen those type too. Well in that case then yes this is probably a call, but personally I would just re-push and not flat call as it might get the 2p2er to fold AKo. Unless you actually wanted him in the hand with that? I'm not sure I would - I'd be happy to just take the t500 and single showdown - but anyway..