Another tough situation

LoaferGee12 · #1 11-18-2005, 02:29 AM

Villain is 40/11 and seems in line postflop.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero

gharp · #2 11-18-2005, 02:31 AM

I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

A_K · #3 11-18-2005, 02:33 AM

I'd considering donking into Button, and hope he raises, knocking out UTG and MP. Then check-call down.

gharp · #4 11-18-2005, 02:41 AM

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I'd considering donking into Button, and hope he raises, knocking out UTG and MP. Then check-call down.

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I'll do Aaron W. the honor of linking his thread about betting into preflop raisers. I don't think it's a good idea in this case since, when he raises, you're often in pretty bad shape.

shermn27 · #5 11-18-2005, 02:45 AM

I bet this flop. What hands does he 3-bet preflop with? AA, KK, QQ, AK, maybe JJ? In any case, I bet here and then if raised call, check call down. Unless of course you know he is a good player who is sure to have you outkicked here, then go ahead and throw it away.

LoaferGee12 · #6 11-18-2005, 02:51 AM

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I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

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This is what I was thinking of but I just feel like I'm giving up on protection of my hand. I'm also not sure if he bets KK,QQ, or TT here everytime which kinda sucks.

gharp · #7 11-18-2005, 03:21 AM

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I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

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This is what I was thinking of but I just feel like I'm giving up on protection of my hand. I'm also not sure if he bets KK,QQ, or TT here everytime which kinda sucks.

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Yeah, it sucks but you can't always protect your hand. Your relative position here would've been nice if the flop was ATT but on this one there's just not much you can do.

And if he checks through it's not the end of the world. Anyone with any kind of draw would've been right to call if you had just bet (and he called) and now, on the turn, they won't be.

LoaferGee12 · #8 11-18-2005, 03:32 AM

Yeah, I think I like your line here. Thanks for the thoughts.

#9 11-18-2005, 04:23 AM

I bet and here's why:

Villian kills you with AA or AK-AJ. He would of course jam the pot with these. But if we check this, I see him betting with not only those hands but KK-God-knows-what. On a coordinated board he would be correct in doing so.

At that point, we're either calling down with a second-best hand or folding a better hand. How do we know?--that blows.

If we bet, we at least get some information on Villain before we seal our fate in this hand. If he just calls, he almost certainly doesn't have us beat.

If he happens to raise, that's not a bad thing either, which is also why I think our bet is important. His raise does something for us we can't do ourselves: protect our hand (which admittedly may not be as good once he raises, but eliminating players is important to our success). On this board I love the idea of facing the others with two bets.

For me, all this adds up to betting being the most positive expectation.

adsman · #10 11-18-2005, 04:29 AM

This is a very co-ordinated board. Even if you bet into the 3 better and he raises forcing the fied to call 2 cold, the pot is so big that they will be getting correct odds to call. So you can't protect your hand here. And if you are behind to the button betting into him will suck.
So I check it, see what the button does and re-evaluate on the turn.