I check behind flop and get blasted

TheWorstPlayer · #1 11-09-2005, 02:09 AM

Both hands, how is the flop check, and what do I do on the turn?

Hand 1
UTG is very LAG. Been running insanely hot and is up a lot on the day although I haven't been playing with him that much. Sat with him briefly on a few tables, though, over the course of the night.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

TWP ($411.60)
SB ($390)
BB ($400)
UTG ($409.30)
MP ($480.60)
CO ($394)

Preflop: TWP is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, 2 folds, TWP raises to $15, 2 folds, UTG calls $11.

Flop: ($36) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, TWP checks.

Turn: ($36) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $45, TWP raises to $140, UTG calls $349.30 (All-In), TWP...?

Hand 2
Villain in this one is more sane. He's only recently sat down, but he hasn't done anything out of line yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($468.80)
MP ($87.95)
TWP ($394)
SB ($308.50)
BB ($570)

Preflop: TWP is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
2 folds, TWP raises to $15, SB (poster) calls $13, 1 fold.

Flop: ($34) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, TWP checks.

Turn: ($34) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $32.3, TWP raises to $100, SB calls $261.20 (All-In), TWP...?

amoeba · #2 11-09-2005, 02:11 AM

I gotta figure you call in hand 1.

I think I find a fold in hand 2 based on description. hes got to figure you might have AK and hands that beat AK also beats AT.

yvesaint · #3 11-09-2005, 02:12 AM

call hand 1, fold hand 2

hand 1 looks like a bare Q maybe ...LAG range is huge, could even be JT ....limps 99 pre-flop? is he aggressive preflop?

hand 2 looks like he flopped it, hoping youd c-bet

then he pots turn?? and pushes once you show interest? looks a lot like KQ/KJ to me

#4 11-09-2005, 02:17 AM

I call hand 1 fold 2 for reasons previously stated. As an aside though, why no continuation bet in hand 1. Is this standard for you or is it just to mix it up. Just curious. Thx

awarunn · #5 11-09-2005, 02:17 AM

I like the check on the flop in the first hand especially against this guy.

amoeba · #6 11-09-2005, 02:18 AM

because villain is very LAG and your flop continuation bet will likely be read for continuation bet and get check raised regardless of villain's holdings and you are put in to tough spot.

#7 11-09-2005, 02:20 AM

Hand 1: Call
Hand 2: Fold

I don't mind the check at all.

awarunn · #8 11-09-2005, 02:20 AM

I'm not speaking for TWP but the reason I like the check on the flop of the first hand is because villian is LAG. The flop isn't too continuation-bet-friendly. It seems pretty probable that a continuation bet will get raised here by a LAG. And when you get raised holding 88 on that flop it puts you in a bad spot. I like checking and seeing what he does and then playing it from there.

yvesaint · #9 11-09-2005, 02:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
because villain is very LAG and your flop continuation bet will likely be read for continuation bet and get check raised regardless of villain's holdings and you are put in to tough spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to mention checking behind gets you called on your turn/river bets by a lot of lower pockets

Aloysius · #10 11-09-2005, 02:32 AM

Flop-check on hand 1 seems like the optimal line. You want another card off, and too likely that he'll play back at you or he simply has you crushed.

Are you wondering if a continuation bet helps you make a decision to call on the turn? If he flopped a boat or trips, you're seeing a turn as he's trapping with either hand, and once that 8 comes off, I don't see how you get away from it.

Second hand - I'd be surprised if he didn't have a boat the way it was played. I think this is a difficult hand not to lose a lot on (I think you have to raise the turn here). I don't see how a flop-check is anything but correct.