Funky KK hand

DrPublo · #1 08-19-2005, 04:11 PM

PP 100NL. Standard opponents.

One limp to me on the CO ($140), and I raise to $5 with KK. Button folds and BB (unremarkable, covers me) reraises to $15. Limper folds and I call.

Flop ($30): 393r.

He bets $25. I figure I'm way ahead or way behind here and just call, intending to call down.

Turn ($80): [3 9 3] A, completing the rainbow

Uh oh.

He bets $20, which is small. He either really liked or really disliked this card. I figure aces full will check, so now I really dont know what to do. I think if I call here he probably won't bet QQ again on the river but probably will bet again with an ace. I call.

River ($120): Brick. [3 9 3] A x

He bets $75, which is exactly what I have left.

I fold with a very dissatisfied taste in my mouth. Fold the turn?

The Doc

IamLeach · #2 08-19-2005, 04:21 PM

I like your line of just calling the flop bet, but I think i would raise it here. Also I think I would re-raise pre-flop (but even as I type it it seems like bad advice and i don't know why.) As you played it, i would strongly consider folding the turn bet or raising the turn bet. Call seems out of line here. the raise on the turn bet gives you much more information IMO. where as the call is weak and doesn't help you.

SlyAK · #3 08-19-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also I think I would re-raise pre-flop (but even as I type it it seems like bad advice and i don't know why.)

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why is that throwing in another raise PF should make it clear to villain that hero has AA or KK, therefore allowing villain to fold all hands that hero beats, like QQ/AK.

Sly

IamLeach · #4 08-19-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Also I think I would re-raise pre-flop (but even as I type it it seems like bad advice and i don't know why.)

The reason why is that throwing in another raise PF should make it clear to villain that hero has AA or KK, therefore allowing villain to fold all hands that hero beats, like QQ/AK.

Sly

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out for me. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

DrPublo · #5 08-19-2005, 05:38 PM

Villain bets $20 into me on the turn. I have $95 and the pot is $80. What raise can I make that is not pot committing?

The Doc

SlyAK · #6 08-19-2005, 05:43 PM

You can't raise the turn w/o getting pot committed. Your line seems fine. I might even fold the turn here.

Sly

Ps. There is NO way I would call the river either.

DrPublo · #7 08-19-2005, 05:53 PM

I can't see folding the turn when he bet less than he did on the flop AND the pot is bigger. Seems like he doesn't like the card. I think any hand without an A will check after I call the turn bet, right?

The Doc

trigeek08 · #8 08-19-2005, 05:55 PM

You are giving villian way to much credit by thinking he will lay down a hand like JJ/QQ/AQ/AK pre-flop to a re-raise. If villin has JJ he will put hero on AK, same with QQ. If villian has AK he will put hero on AQ, KQ, or maybe even hands like KJ/KT since there was only one limper when hero raised in a steal position.

Now, without the reraise pf, a raise on the flop is in order. Maybe I am just a little new to this, but I would imagine villian going for a check/raise with a hand like AA or QQ. The $25 bet seems more like a continuation bet.

Turn. Since villian is "unremarkable" I would imagine that he has now made his hand and is telling himself, "What kinda bet can I put out there that will get this guy to pay off my AK?" I can't imagine him putting out a deffensive/blocker bet when this ace falls

River. Good fold. He has convinced himself that you have a hand you will pay him off with and he in turn puts you in.

DrPublo · #9 08-19-2005, 06:05 PM

Your preflop thoughts are just plain wrong. Heads up or 3 handed, maybe. But in a full 6max game a preflop 3-bet ALWAYS means AA. Moreover, by 3-betting I allow him to drop all worse hands. This is perfectly well explained in R&C, I suggest you go pick it up.

Your thoughts on the flop are wrong too. I am either way ahead (he's drawing to 2 or 3 outs), or way behind (drawing to 2 outs). Raising is bad.

I also think your interpretation of the super small turn bet doesn't make sense with average player's thought processes.

The Doc

trigeek08 · #10 08-19-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your preflop thoughts are just plain wrong. Heads up or 3 handed, maybe. But in a full 6max game a preflop 3-bet ALWAYS means AA. Moreover, by 3-betting I allow him to drop all worse hands. This is perfectly well explained in R&C, I suggest you go pick it up.

Your thoughts on the flop are wrong too. I am either way ahead (he's drawing to 2 or 3 outs), or way behind (drawing to 2 outs). Raising is bad.

I also think your interpretation of the super small turn bet doesn't make sense with average player's thought processes.

The Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I thought I would take a shot at it. I felt that a pf three-bet may also look like you are trying to regain controll of the hand. I am just not big on calling the flop bet. It still leaves you wondering whether you are ahead or behind. I also do not give villian as being able to think on the level of the "average player. Thanks for the constructive criticism (I will at least interpret it as that.)