Early on: my best and worst starting hands

Texas Pete · #1 07-26-2004, 12:08 AM

Just reviewed my best and worst starting hands (in terms of BB won or lost) in the early going (5/10, 10/20, and 15/30). I've got about 7k hands in PokerTraker from SNGs.

The best:
No surprise:
AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, and large suited connectors down to JTs. There is an occasional appearance by smaller pairs and Axs or Kxs.
Surprise: big unsuited stuff (e.g. AQos) is absent.

Worst hands: By far, low suited connectors and stuff like 96s, 75s, Kxs. Also AQos, KJos, JTos, and J9os.

What it means: I think it would be a mistake to fold things like AQos or Kxs as a rule, but I think i'll play them only occasionally in the early going and then only in late position with only limpers. Just like everyone says to do. Guess I just sorta verified it.

durron597 · #2 07-26-2004, 12:36 AM

DUMP Kxs. It loses enough to Axs when you both it the flush enough to make it not worth it the rare times that happens. Also play your connectors and Axs in position only, that should help make them more profitable. Also I would dump your offsuit connectors except for stealing purposes and in the blinds.

Hood · #3 07-26-2004, 05:05 AM

I agree here. I rarely play Kxs. Perhaps button/co with lots of limpers, or from the SB. Otherwise it's trouble. Axs i'll always play late with a few players for the minimum.

Interesting stats, I don't have PT so I don't have these. If others have these stats I'd be very interested.

PrayingMantis · #4 07-26-2004, 07:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Worst hands: By far, low suited connectors and stuff like 96s, 75s, Kxs. Also AQos, KJos, JTos, and J9os.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that you're losing money with certain hands, doesn't say much about their intrinsic value, but rather about how you play them. If you're really losing significant money on these hands, early on, you are definitely misplaying them. KJos, TJos and J9os can be very tricky and you should be very careful if you want, from some reason, to see a flop with them. It is very possible you are playing too many draws, which is a big mistake in an SNG.

As to the 97s and 75s - usually, these are not trouble hands. Either you hit hard or you're out very fast. If they are such big losers for you, you clearly need to auto-fold them PF, and work on your post-flop game. No need to lose money on such speculative hands.

Texas Pete · #5 07-26-2004, 09:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you're losing money with certain hands, doesn't say much about their intrinsic value, but rather about how you play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point

Texas Pete · #6 07-26-2004, 11:23 PM

I'm going to throw up a bunch of these low suited hands from the early on, and see if Mantis is correct: I'M PLAYING THEM LIKE A RETARD

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (10 handed)

MP2 (t1000.00)
MP3 (t1155.00)
CO (t995.00)
Hero (t970.00)
SB (t990.00)
BB (t950.00)
UTG (t785.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
UTG+2 (t1185.00)
MP1 (t970.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t5.
UTG calls t10, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t10, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls t10, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t35, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls t35, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (t120) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t85, Hero calls t85.

River: (t290) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t260, Hero calls t260.

Final Pot: t810

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 6s 3s (flush, eight high).
Hero shows 9h 6h (straight, nine high).
Outcome: UTG wins t810.

Texas Pete · #7 07-26-2004, 11:27 PM

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (9 handed)

UTG+1 (t1330.00)
MP1 (t1270.00)
MP2 (t1580.00)
MP3 (t480.00)
CO (t1070.00)
Hero (t2170.00)
SB (t310.00)
BB (t980.00)
UTG (t810.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t10, MP1 calls t10, MP2 calls t10, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls t10, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t60) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets t30, MP2 folds, Hero raises to t60, SB calls t60, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t30.

Turn: (t240) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets t50, SB calls t50, MP1 calls t50.

River: (t390) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t190, MP1 folds, Hero calls t190.

Final Pot: t770
Main Pot: t770 (t770), between Hero and SB. > Pot won by SB (t770).

Results in white below: 
SB shows 9h 8h (straight, ten high).
Hero shows 7h 5h (two pair, sevens and fives).
Outcome: SB wins t770.

Texas Pete · #8 07-26-2004, 11:32 PM

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Was I smoking crack??

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (10 handed)

BB (t630.00)
UTG (t290.00)
UTG+1 (t1095.00)
UTG+2 (t625.00)
Hero (t1930.00)
MP2 (t970.00)
MP3 (t1525.00)
CO (t855.00)
Button (t855.00)
SB (t1225.00)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t5.
UTG calls t10, UTG+1 raises to t20, UTG+2 calls t20, Hero calls t20, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, SB (poster) raises to t45, BB folds, UTG calls t35, UTG+1 calls t25, UTG+2 calls t25, Hero calls t25, CO calls t25, Button calls t25.

Flop: (t325) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB bets t45, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t45, UTG+2 calls t45, Hero calls t45, CO folds, Button calls t45.

Turn: (t550) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets t50, UTG+1 calls t50, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls t50, Button folds.

River: (t700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets t300, Hero folds, SB calls t300.

Final Pot: t1300
Main Pot: t1300 (t1300), between UTG+1 and SB. > Pot won by SB (t1300).

Results in white below: 
SB shows As Ad (two pair, aces and sixes).
UTG+1 shows Qh Qs (two pair, queens and sixes).
Outcome: SB wins t1300.

durron597 · #9 07-26-2004, 11:33 PM

You really need to bet the turn a lot harder here.

Texas Pete · #10 07-26-2004, 11:36 PM

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] way out of position

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (10 handed)

SB (t895.00)
BB (t990.00)
UTG (t1000.00)
UTG+1 (t1155.00)
Hero (t955.00)
MP1 (t940.00)
MP2 (t935.00)
MP3 (t935.00)
CO (t970.00)
Button (t1225.00)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t10, Hero calls t10, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t10, MP3 folds, CO calls t10, Button calls t10, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t70) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets t70, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t70, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t70, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t280) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets t60, BB folds, Hero calls t60.

River: (t400) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t60, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t460
Main Pot: t400 (t400), won by CO.
Pot 2: t60 (t60), returned to CO.

Results in white below: 
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: CO wins t460.

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