Why aren't you better?

[citanul]

just want to jump in here on the subject of crushing the 200s:

1) while i agree with raptor mostly, i don't do so entirely
2) i believe you can do very well (though perhaps not be the best player in the game) by playing well in the late game and implementing "good cash game strategy" in the early game
3) i think that a fairly straightforward approach to the early game can also be quite viable
4) playing well post flop is vastly more important than playing tons of hands preflop
5) i think that people misunderstand (possibly even including raptor) what perfect late game play is. it is often the most "adjusting to your opponents" heavy part of the game. many 200s tables (though not as many lately) don't have donks willing to dough-nate with 3rd pair on level 1, so just the straightout "lay into the donks" doesn't do that well for adjusting play concerns. instead, knowing when you're at a table where pushing every +ev push is right, and when you're at one where they'll bust themselves, and other such concerns, is very important. it is in spots like this where raw ICM fails you, and being a good player of these games wins out.

there's more i'm sure, but meh.

c

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
i think that people misunderstand (possibly even including raptor) what perfect late game play is.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know exactly what it is. beaing able to look into your opponents soul. knowing the exact range of hands he will call with in a given situation. knowing the exact range he will shove with in a given situation. knowing who will fold to a min raise. knowing who will shove over every min raise. etc. holla

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting thread. I was reading a thread yesterday by Major Kong, Mason Malmuth.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, Major Kong is Ed Miller's old posting name.

[citanul]

well, yeah, those things are good.

small things that many people overlook include (as mentioned previously):

knowing when your table requires you to do those things that you mentioned -

if your table is likely to give you a walk in to the money within the next 3 hands, there's not much reason to go around making slightly +ev pushes, even if you know exactly what they're calling with and that they're +ev. for instance.

c

[freemoney]

all forms of poker are information games, since you cant see other persons cards, it is a game of incomplete information. the ability to gain as much information as possible with every decision while giving up as little information as possible is the goal. each decision made by your opposition is done for a reason, to understand their motives and playing good poker rather than good sng poker is very oftenly overlooked. marginal decisions that have more complexities than the icm can calculate are really overrated, i have never looked at icm or sng power tools, to have an understanding of these applications is important but beyond that not so much.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
well, yeah, those things are good.

small things that many people overlook include (as mentioned previously):

knowing when your table requires you to do those things that you mentioned -

if your table is likely to give you a walk in to the money within the next 3 hands, there's not much reason to go around making slightly +ev pushes, even if you know exactly what they're calling with and that they're +ev. for instance.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

yea thats true as well. knowing who gives walks is supremely important. i used to sit to the right of tough guys that fold a lot. now i sit to the left of crappy guys that give me walks a lot. its much more worth it imo. holla

[tigerite]

And also metagame considerations rap. Like folding at 50/100 because you know the next time you're in sb and he's in bb it's 75/150 or just towards the end of 50/100, and the blinds will be much more important to you then; so you fold to give the impression your range will be tighter the next time.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
And also metagame considerations rap. Like folding at 50/100 because you know the next time you're in sb and he's in bb it's 75/150 or just towards the end of 50/100, and the blinds will be much more important to you then; so you fold to give the impression your range will be tighter the next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

this subject has been fairly beaten to death. and mostly debunked.

the concensus was basically yeah, i'd fold a spot where i had some reasonable stealing equity at level 1 in order to get equity at 50/100 and such, if i thought that that actually would effect the way people looked at my play. but passing on a steal at blinds 50/100 + when you should be stealing sb v bb is impossibly stupid.

c

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting thread. I was reading a thread yesterday by Major Kong, Mason Malmuth.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, Major Kong is Ed Miller's old posting name.

[/ QUOTE ]

I blew it. Got up way too early and the brain still isn't firing on all cylinders. It was Ed. Doh!

Thanks for the correction.

CJ

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
And also metagame considerations rap. Like folding at 50/100 because you know the next time you're in sb and he's in bb it's 75/150 or just towards the end of 50/100, and the blinds will be much more important to you then; so you fold to give the impression your range will be tighter the next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont do this as much anymore. i limp and make it 250 a lot when i have around 1k chips on lvl 4. i dont shove as much as is probably +ev. also, i find that being maniacal gets you more walks. sometimes ill make a loose call early so they steal less from me late. its really good to do if u have decent odds and it wont take up more than half yer stack. holla