Boy this game is fun when the cards work WITH you!

[LetsRock]

Well, I'm glad you see it that way. You're right this place is great place to vent. It just seems like every month I need vent (even the winning ones). Thanks for understanding. No matter how many times I hear someone else's sob story, I can't help but FEEL that I am the only one who ever went throught this even though I KNOW that some have gone through much worse for much more.

I don't know that I'll see anyone at 10/20, 15/30. I just don't think that I can handle those swings. I mean if swings of this mini-magnitude drive me to the edge, what will $1000 sessions do to me? My goal is simply to get my BR big enough to play 5/10 regularly and start cashing out some of my winnings instead of gringing for the next limit. It does help when you can get some of the money in your paws and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

That's probably what is so frustrating about the last few months - I'm right on the edge of being able to jump into 5/10 full time, put every time I try I get thumped pretty bad. I have all of 10 hours in at 5/10 (5 sessions) and all but one of the sessions were pretty bad trouncings and I was not outplayed at any one of them - just freaky bad cards and freaky bad suckouts. Back to the trenches for a while.....

[Chazbot2000]

I'm a 2/4 - 3/6 player too, so I'm sympathetic. I get very obsessed with changes in my bankroll even though in the grand scheme of things it's not a lot of money.

Reading everyone's posts re: bad months, I have to think there is something besides luck at work. I used to have swings like the ones you mentioned but think I have learned enough about this game that those swings are greatly diminished. If you're experiencing extended downswings like what you say, there's something wrong with your game. I'm not bragging, but I haven't had 2 sequential losing sessions in months.

I do remember times where I had the swings you describe, but think my game has grown past that. Anyone have a similar experience?

[arkady]

Regarding 5/10, same boat. I dont think I can handle another stab at 5/10 - because its too much to lose relative to our existing BR and frankly I got a car to pay off, so I better concentrate on that.

Money cashed out and spent will never be part of a downswing.

[LetsRock]

With all due respect, I'm very happy with my game. I'm not perfect and I know that a few bets slipped away due to poor decisions, but the vast majority of the awful stretches was just plain old stinky luck. There's nothing you can do about someone who plays their K3o to the river despite as much betting and raising as possible to have them hit a 3 to take down your AK. There's nothing you can do about having a flopped nut straight get sucked out when the board is paired on the river. There's nothing you can do when your sets don't hold up. There's nothing you can do when you run into KK and AA with your QQ and they didn't even bet their hands once. There's nothing you can do when you get dealt 0 starting hands for 78 consecutive hands. And then you start another streak of 83 muckibles after your AA gets hammered by a 4 flush on the board and the monkey with 53o drags the pot. There's nothing....OK, OK hopefully you get the point. When you have 2 or 3 weeks that go like this (not 2 or 3 hands) it gets old and it will get in your head. I'm the first person to look at a hand and see if there is anyway I can blame myself for what happened. I WANT to find mistakes so I can correct somthing. That's the worst part - I am totally helpless.

The few pots you are fortunate enough to drag are minimal because your cards have been so cold that if you even look at your stack (how can they see me looking at my stack on-line?) they fold because I must have a monster - except for the one time you actually do try to buy a pot and they somehow had to call you down with bottom pair. If you've really been there, you know what I mean, if you don't, then hang on, it will come. I hope for your sake it doesn't. But it will. I wouldn't wish that kind of punishment on anyone.

[arkady]

You are not serious are you? How many hands are we talking about here?

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
With all due respect, I'm very happy with my game. I'm not perfect and I know that a few bets slipped away due to poor decisions, but the vast majority of the awful stretches was just plain old stinky luck. There's nothing you can do about someone who plays their K3o to the river despite as much betting and raising as possible to have them hit a 3 to take down your AK. There's nothing you can do about having a flopped nut straight get sucked out when the board is paired on the river. There's nothing you can do when your sets don't hold up. There's nothing you can do when you run into KK and AA with your QQ and they didn't even bet their hands once. There's nothing you can do when you get dealt 0 starting hands for 78 consecutive hands. And then you start another streak of 83 muckibles after your AA gets hammered by a 4 flush on the board and the monkey with 53o drags the pot. There's nothing....OK, OK hopefully you get the point. When you have 2 or 3 weeks that go like this (not 2 or 3 hands) it gets old and it will get in your head. I'm the first person to look at a hand and see if there is anyway I can blame myself for what happened. I WANT to find mistakes so I can correct somthing. That's the worst part - I am totally helpless.

The few pots you are fortunate enough to drag are minimal because your cards have been so cold that if you even look at your stack (how can they see me looking at my stack on-line?) they fold because I must have a monster - except for the one time you actually do try to buy a pot and they somehow had to call you down with bottom pair. If you've really been there, you know what I mean, if you don't, then hang on, it will come. I hope for your sake it doesn't. But it will. I wouldn't wish that kind of punishment on anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I spent hours loking at my stats trying to figure our where I was going wrong. I searched and dug and inspected. Other than my win rate my stats were virtually identical to months before. Just the hands weren't holding up. AK, AQ, AJ whiffing every street time after time. KK flops an A, Flushes missed, OESD missed, 2 pair counterfieted on river, etc, etc , etc. Opponents calling multiple bets to hit the gutshot or RR flush with nothing else in their hands. My Axs loses to T4s when I flop 2 to flush and he hits RR flush. Nothing you can do about this but try and minimise the hits. Sure there were a few BB's in there I could have saved. But as far as I could determine it was just a nasty streak. I remember my first 1 week -100BB slump. I thought nothing was worse. May was 4 times worse. I imagine as I progress I will even see worse. Just hopefully not for a couple months [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jim

[Fnord]

If you're at a table where the players are that bad (K3o, 53o, etc.) perhaps you are playing too tight?

This hand helped turn around a little negative swing of mine. On a tougher table this is a fold and if I hadn't adapted... (edit: then again on a tougher table I wouldn't be looking at 4 limpers in front..)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="red">CO raises</font>, Button folds, Fnord calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="red">Fnord bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="red">Fnord bets</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="red">Fnord 3-bets</font>, <font color="red">UTG caps</font>, Fnord calls.

River: (16.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="red">Fnord bets</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises</font>, <font color="red">Fnord 3-bets</font>, <font color="red">UTG caps</font>, Fnord calls.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Fnord shows 6h Ah (flush, ace high).
UTG shows 5h 8h (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Fnord wins 24.50 BB. </font>

[Chazbot2000]

Exactly. If you're playing games with 5-6 preflop callers and 3+ players at the showdown, playing tight agressive with just Group 1 hands will induce some more sizeable swings.

Throw some drawing hands into the mix: suited connectors, A-x suited, middle and low wired pairs (in late positions).

I also play 2 tables at once so a bad run on 1 table is offset by the other.

There was someone who mentioned a 13k hand month that was a "bad streak." I'm sorry, the law of averages completely defies 13k hands being one long bad streak.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, just saying it's worth thinking through your game too. If you're convinced your game is perfect, deposit some more $$$ and start playing $10-20.

Also agree with that earlier post on the benefit of religously withdrawing winnings. Withdrawing is far and away my biggest psychic reward.

[LetsRock]

You know, I considered that. But honestly even the cards I was mucking missed the board. I'm serious. You know how you have those hands "boy if only I was a fish! that Q4 I mucked hit the board!" - well I wasn't even seeing that. I might as well been playing with UNO cards. If my cards were red, the board was black. If my cards were odd, the board was even (and nowhere close to building a straight!). And I wasn't even seeing that many hands that I could justify loosening up on. J3o, 92o, K5o. It was remarkable just howmany hands in a row I could get that were simply unplayable.

Besides, to me that is tilting when you change your starting standards just because things aren't going well. If things are running bad, loosening up just leads to REALLY bad sessions.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides, to me that is tilting when you change your starting standards just because things aren't going well. If things are running bad, loosening up just leads to REALLY bad sessions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Just got the impression from your posts that you might be missing the chance to play marginal hands against horrible players. Without access to your PT database it's hard to make a solid analysis [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]