Playing vs LAg and LP's

This post is 2 questions.
When playing in a 6 max game that contains 1 or 2 very loose aggressive players, I know it's better to tighten up and punish these players when your hand connects. However, since these guys are betting and raising with literally any 2 cards and are also quite happy to follow through with their madness to the river, do you just accept that your bankroll is going to undergo huge swings and and play your more marginal hands, such as TPTK more agressively than you normally would. Would you commit more chips than you normally would against a very big show of strength after the turn with that hand or would you just try and get all of your chips in on the flop with TPTK.
If not would you give up strong but not monster hands on the flop, waiting for a real big hand to punish those opponents?

Vs. very loose passive players, would the correct startgey be similar to the one for LAG's? If not what modifcations should be made.

I guess I'm asking these questions because over the last 20k hands that I've played I've lost most of my winnings of the last year to these type of players. I purposely look to play in games that have these types of opponents in them. I only see about 25% of flops, raise pre-flop about 6% of the time, and win about 30% of pots that I enter. I seem to get drawn out a lot and also seem to be committing a lot of chips with TPTK, which I beleive to by positive EV hands vs. these type of players. However, it has not been positive EV for me as I'm a big loser in 1 pair hands that I'm taking to the river.

Thanks guys.

[Triumph36]

I assume we're talking about NL here - but I can't tell how LAG-ish your opposition is. There's a difference between people raising 10-15% of hands vs. people raising 50% - against the latter, TPTK or even TPBK can be enough to go all in on.

But yes, playing against LAGs is hugely high variance, and I also lost 3 months worth of winnings flipping coins with them over a week's time.

It's unclear from your post how loose-aggressive these players are. Some LAGs will call all-ins with garbage pre-flop and post-flop, and others are very tricky and don't put money in unless they think they have an edge.

Yes I was talking aout NL holdem. The LAg's that I'm talking about see between 55%-85% of flops. Raise between 25%-35% go to about 60% of all showdowns and will go all in with the 72o without hitting anything as easily as the nuts at any point in the hand.
Thanks

I wouldn't get too frustrated from getting out-drawn by these types of opponents as long as you play it right. You want to remember to make bets so it does not give them any odds to draw. Obviously, when you have the best of it, you would like to extract as many chips as possible from your opponents. This is the advantage of playing against LAG opponenets - they often play back and you get paid off. In terms of having TpTk, i'd say that against a LAG player you will have the best hand 95% of the time and i would vary between pushing 15% and betting half / 2/3rds of the pot the other 85%.

[Triumph36]

To me it's very important to know if these are the kind of players who fold to limp-reraises or check-raises. If not, sit to their right and isolate them with your big hands, and stick it in on most flops. You want to be the aggressor on these hands for the most part, but let them hang themselves with huge bluffs too, if the situation demands it.

If these players are that loose, you don't want to see a river with a lot of money left behind. You also want to buy in for less than full, as this will make a lot of your decisions easier. Say you sit to their right as UTG, you limp, they raise 4x the BB UTG+1, 3 other callers, you make it 16BBs to go, he calls - a pot size bet is now around 40 BBs on the flop. You should be therefore be buying in for something like 50 - 75 BBs.

If they don't call LRRs or check-raises, you're up against tough competition, and I suggest finding new people to go after.

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In terms of having TpTk, i'd say that against a LAG player you will have the best hand 95% of the time and i would vary between pushing 15% and betting half / 2/3rds of the pot the other 85%.

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Are you talking about pushing 15% of the time on the flop? And for the times you don't push, if a scary card come on the turn or river (3 flush or straight, overcard, paired board) do you continue to fire back?
Thanks again

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very important to know if these are the kind of players who fold to limp-reraises or check-raises. If not, sit to their right and isolate them

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If they don't don't you want to sit to their left to isolate?

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you don't want to see a river with a lot of money left behind.

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Is this because you will have a tough decision on the river or because you're leaving $$ on the table?

Yes, I would push 10-15% on the flop with TpTk. Another creative idea would be a check-raise on flop if you feel he will bet into you. In terms of a scare card coming up, your action depends greatly on your position. Acting first, I would continue betting. If you bet on flop and check on turn and he bets on the turn, you don't know where your at. The only way to gain information in this type of situation would be to come back with a raise. You can't let a LAG player run over you.

[Triumph36]

Sitting on their left to isolate sounds good in theory, but you'll never have any idea if your hand is good in relation to other people. In other words, you might push over a maniac raise with AK, only to run into KK or AA over on the other side of the table. Sitting on the right gives you the best chance to isolate because it means the other end of the table has to act, and therefore demonstrate the strength of their hand. If they're any good, they're also looking to isolate the maniac - this means that you can know if your AQ is likely to be good by the time the action comes back around to you, because they've all called or raised or folded. It will put a lot of dead money in the pot for you as well.

Sitting on the left is very dangerous - remember, all you're looking to do is get all the money in on the flop. Sitting to the left would be important if you were looking to play turns and rivers with this guy, but you're not.