1st hand, $55 sng

[DarrenX]

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***** Hand History for Game 2808714259 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16243822) - Sat Oct 01 19:55:14 EDT 2005
Table Table 18968 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: thatspoker__ (1000)
Seat 2: toneland (1000)
Seat 3: EmekaOtwuku (1000)
Seat 4: mpokerw (1000)
Seat 5: gubynnej (1000)
Seat 6: mikejc23tx (1000)
Seat 7: ETiryak (1000)
Seat 8: H20sBOY (1000)
Seat 9: DarrenX (1000)
Seat 10: a6308 (1000)
a6308 posts small blind (10)
thatspoker__ posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DarrenX [ 4s, 4c ]
toneland raises (45) to 45
EmekaOtwuku folds.
mpokerw folds.
gubynnej calls (45)
mikejc23tx folds.
ETiryak folds.
H20sBOY folds.
DarrenX calls (45)
a6308 folds.
thatspoker__ calls (30)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, Qd, 8h ]
thatspoker__ checks.
toneland checks.
gubynnej checks.
DarrenX checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4h ]
thatspoker__ checks.
toneland checks.
gubynnej checks.
DarrenX bets (125)
thatspoker__ calls (125)
toneland raises (300) to 300
gubynnej folds.
DarrenX...?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You aren't considering folding here right?

Raise or call. I'm leaning towards pushing here. If he has a higher set, he's got you. I doub that a player at the $55's would slowplay a set like this, I'd put him on AA or KK, but even that seems weird that he would slowplay it after the flop. He may have FPS, and was going to C/R the flop?

[bluefeet]

[I'll call a min PF w/44 L1, this one's pushing it. With a caller in between, you're getting a decent price - but considering how often we flop a set, I'm probably folding this PF]

Wow. Is he holding exactly 57 here? C/r'ing from the blinds this heavy handed, it is certainly more than a "piece" or a draw. The problem is, you'll see 2-pair here just as often. BUT...if that were the case, he'd have to be holding the last 4 in the deck (assuming he didn't flop 2-pair on the flop, looking to c/r on that street - which is always possibe, but I'd expect him to lead the turn).

Push or fold. Well, he certainly isn't folding to a push. If he has the straight, we're facing a 9-outer. I don't know what to tell you. It sucks we have t175 invested, but considering the unlikelihood of him holding the case 4, I don't think folding is too weak.


Edit: Calling sucks, as YOUR cold-caller will feel priced into calling as well. If we are ahead of the c/r'r, giving the river "cheap" to the other - probably draw'r, is unwise IMO. As for raising? You may as well push. The blind guy is getting them all in here on the turn. Again, I don't hate-hate the push...it's just hard for me to put him on THIS 2-pair. And representing now after failing to do so on the flop doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, as with this not-likely-to-have-helped-anyone turn card...I'd expect him to open the turn. I think he has the straight, I really do.

[downtown]

I like a push. I am thinking even with a big pair, that flop looked pretty safe to the original raiser and he may have been trying to trap, or possibly c/r. AQ, AhKh, AKo, AA, KK, are all possibilities here in my mind. QQ is also possible, but we can't fear monsters under the bed, and there's not a lot of room for nuance left. I push.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]

[I'll call a min PF w/44 L1, this one's pushing it. With a caller in between, you're getting a decent price - but considering how often we flop a set, I'm probably folding this PF]

Wow. Is he holding exactly 57 here? C/r'ing from the blinds this heavy handed, it is certainly more than a "piece" or a draw. The problem is, you'll see 2-pair here just as often. BUT...if that were the case, he'd have to be holding the last 4 in the deck (assuming he didn't flop 2-pair on the flop, looking to c/r on that street - which is always possibe, but I'd expect him to lead the turn).

Push or fold. Well, he certainly isn't folding to a push. If he has the straight, we're facing a 9-outer. I don't know what to tell you. It sucks we have t175 invested, but considering the unlikelihood of him holding the case 4, I don't think folding is too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the initial UTG 3xBB raiser. I don't think he ever has 57. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Folding is terrible.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a push. I am thinking even with a big pair, that flop looked pretty safe to the original raiser and he may have been trying to trap, or possibly c/r. AQ, AhKh, AKo, AA, KK, are all possibilities here in my mind. QQ is also possible, but we can't fear monsters under the bes, and there's not a lot of room for nuance left. I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Sorry...I thought this turn raise came from the blinds, my bad. Yeah, I push this all day!!


Edit: S'what I get for trying to post from work while looking over my shoulder. I think you nailed it...a large pair, looking for someone behind to bite on the flop. Did I mention PUSH?! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(I vote for fold preflop, to early to get involved with 44 and a lot of overcards on the flop.)

Now, after raise on turn, PUSH must be right in the long run.

[hyde]

I'm pretty sure you own him.
I put him on A,Q..though why he didn't bet the flop is curious....slow playing 8,8?
I put him putting you on K,Q

[wiggs73]

I'm not sure this is a push or fold decision as others are saying. I definitely don't think a fold would be right, so your choices are calling or pushing. I think both have their advantages. A push shows extreme strength and I'm not sure how many people would be paying you off with 2 pair here if you push. If you think 2 pair usually would call a push, then it's the right decision. My concern, though, is that you might only get more chips in the pot from hands that have you beaten.

A call, on the other hand, shows less strength, so he might bet at the river with a weaker hand. If he checks the river, you can always value bet (or value push) then and try to get your chips in that way.

I must admit I have sympathy for this line.

One of my leaks (I think) is that I really hate giving him a free card now. If he gets lucky on the river, he should at least have to pay for it up front.