Biggest Reasons Kerry Lost in 2004

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
studies have shown if the recall had gone through he would have won Florida as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Continuing to make such misstatements reduces your credibility. Bush won Florida fairly, it is small-minded to push such nonsensical notions for political reasons.

(Note: I am not calling Grey small-minded. Just looking at his avatar should make it clear that he is not. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
Bush won Florida fairly

[/ QUOTE ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Presidential_Election#Media_post-electoral_studies.2Frecounts

well it depends on which standards and which type of recount you run.

But what isn't questioned among any of the studies is that if the best possible voting equipment had been used, Gore would have won.

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You really think that the American public has a good grasp on policy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think most people are policy wonks. But they know were they stand on basic issues like taxes, the war on terror, and the hot social issues. I give people credit for voting for what they believe in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to disagree. Without knowing the more details aspects of Kerry's tax plan, or Bush's plan for Iraq, I can't trust a random person to make their best decision.

[John Cole]

Grey provides a number of good reasons, but I also think the image of both candidates affected the election. Unfortunately, since I live in Massachusetts near Rhode Island, I don't get to see much advertising. However, Bush's campaign ran a very effective commercial I saw once just before the election in which Bush embraced the child of a victim of 9/11. I imagine that same commerical was run over and over in Ohio a few days before the election, and that alone may have been swayed undecided voters.

In addtioon, Kerry chose to portray himself as "fit for duty," a move that seemed ill chosen. He should have hammered Bush on the war and the economy--or let the party hacks do it--in the same way the party hacks hammmered Kerry on the flip flop thing. Kerry also should have made it clear that he was bamboozled by the "intelligence" on WMDs and would have voted differently had the truth been told by the president. Finally, he should have lied a bit. For example, "As a Catholic, I have no problem with the Ten Commandments in courtrooms, prayer in school, and Good will always triumph over Evil." It doesn't have to make any sense, but as we have learned from both Bushes, if you say something often enough, people will begin to believe it.

John

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently your position is that Kerry conducted a well run campaign.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely. A Senator with a long maleable voting record, a liberal, a Northeast anti-war activist who refused (as Bill Clinton suggested to him) to support anti-gay marriage state amendments almost won the friggin Presidency against an incumbent during two wars who previously had approval ratings in the 90's. It was an excellent campaign. Unfortunately he'll go down in history as a loser, but no one else (except maybe Wesley Clark) could have done what he did.[ QUOTE ]
I think you're in denial.

[/ QUOTE ]Please explain. I can admit badly run campaigns (like Gore's). I've even been involved in some pretty badly run campaigns at the state level- but Kerry's was a great one.

[Broken Glass Can]

Let me quote the Wikipedia article you cite:
[ QUOTE ]
However, a Gore win was impossible without a recount of overvotes, which he did not request.


[/ QUOTE ]

So Gore loses under his requested scheme, Gore loses under the illegitimately constructed Florida Supreme Court recount scheme, and Gore loses under the legal recount conducted as per Florida law at the time (the four requested counties).

So to make Gore win, you have to create an artificial recount scheme to get the results you want. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

This is why this urban legend about Gore winning is so pathetic. As I said, Bush won Florida fairly.

[zipo]

The GOP media machine.

The echo chamber of talk radio, fox news, and legions of GOP minions hammering the daily talking points - all on message.

It's all about marketing, and repetition is the key. Look how this GOP machine just dismantled war heroes - including McCain and Cleland, and then Kerry.

Also, from a position of power they were able to manipulate terror alerts in a sophisticated and effective way - notice the terror alerts (based on year-old intel, lol) right at the time of the Democratic convention, and again when Kerry nominated his running mate, pushing these stories right off the front page and out of public consciousness.

This isn't a partisan analysis - my only point is that when it comes to media manipulation/marketing, these GOP guys are *good*.

[wh1t3bread]

Do you guys think Kerry's choice of running mate had a factor in the election? Did Edwards help/hurt Kerry's candidacy? Could he have picked a different running mate which could have ended better for him?

I really have no idea, I'm just interested in what others would say?

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]

I'd have to disagree. Without knowing the more details aspects of Kerry's tax plan, or Bush's plan for Iraq, I can't trust a random person to make their best decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so elitist of you. If people don't see things your way, you assume these "normal" people are incapable of intelligent decision making.


Maybe we should just let the super-intelligent elite, like yourself, run the government.

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'd have to disagree. Without knowing the more details aspects of Kerry's tax plan, or Bush's plan for Iraq, I can't trust a random person to make their best decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so elitist of you. If people don't see things your way, you assume these "normal" people are incapable of intelligent decision making.


Maybe we should just let the super-intelligent elite, like yourself, run the government.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not at all what I'm saying. In fact, it had nothing to do with my views at all. What I'm saying is that most people don't know enough of the facts to make what would be the best decision for themself. I never said that they would end up agreeing with me. Clearly there are smarter people than me that disagree with me, and less intelligent people, as well. Thank you for putting words in my mouth, though.