Free Card???????

LetsRock · #1 12-22-2003, 01:19 PM

3/6 at Intercasino

New to the 3/6 game scene here and don't have any real reads. There's only one player that I have any notes on and he's not in this hand. I'm posting this "next day" and don't remember all the details but this should be enough to get to the thrashing...

I'm in CO with KK. 2 limpers (EP and MP) to me I raise and the limpers call.

Flop JxA. (Great there's always an Ace on my KK hands!)

EP checks, MP bets (wonderful, MP has an ace!) I raise, hoping to knock 'em down. Ep folds, MP calls. (OK, his Ace isn't very strong)

Turn blank x. MP checks and I check through hoping to like the free card.

River J. MP bets and I just call. MP shows Jx (and I mean something like J5o!) and drags the pot.

Now after the hand, while pondering whether I misplayed, I didn't think that MP would go away if I bet the turn anyway so I probably just saved a BB by "blinking". I'm trying to get myself off of playing PFRs all like they were AA (due to criticism from this forum) and felt like checking through on the turn was the correct move, as I felt I was behind before the river. In this situation, should I have bet the turn?

Any thoughts?

Prologue: as it turns out, this hand was the beginning of the end of this session. Table was just as fishy as could be, but the cards betrayed me hand after hand after hand. I couldn't make any hand stand up and these guys were just taking turns pulling cards from nowhere and gave me a thourough thrashing with the worst possible cards imaginable. Just brutal. I didn't go on tilt, I kept playing my usual patient style, but everytime I got the least bit aggressive having caught a decent hand, the grim reaper (disquised as the dealer) reminded me what the point of the day was....very frustrating. Boo hoo, whine, whine, whine - I know, but it truely amazing some of the sessions I sit through.

Vee Quiva · #2 12-22-2003, 01:47 PM

I think you played it fine. I hope you made a note on your opponet for next time that he will call a raise with 2nd pair. Maybe if you get him in that situation next time, you can bet the turn and make him fold.

LetsRock · #3 12-22-2003, 01:56 PM

Thanks. These guys just won't lay down with any piece of the board. BEsides next time he'll have the Ace anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'm not paranoid or anything.... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

(what was that noise? what's that under the bed? go away you freaky little monsters!)

balkii · #4 12-22-2003, 02:15 PM

What's starting to become my standard play in these kinds of situations, when I have position and i'm not sure if my hand is the best, is to bet the turn, and then check behind on the river. If you are planning to call a bet on the river, which you will be faced with often when you show how much you dont like your hand by checking the turn, it will cost the same amount to get to showdown, but you dont risk any free cards. In some instances I might even value bet the river, cause they are _often_ calling with less than your KK in this spot. When the middle card pairs though, there is less they will call you will that you can beat, and you should check behind on the river.

If you are convinced you are behind and will not call anymore bets without helping, then I take the free card.

LetsRock · #5 12-22-2003, 02:28 PM

I kept trying to convince myself that that's whay I should have done. But in retrospect, betting the turn would have cost me 2 more BB.

MP limped and called a raise with J5o. He bet into a PFR with #2 pr. (rainbow board) and backed down to a raise. I just can't believe anyone capable of going this far, with this hand would go-away with one more bet. And as it turned out, he would have c/r the river (if he was clever enough to do so) which would have cost me 2 more bets ("I'm not gonna lay down now...")

I know I got pretty unlucky with the free-card that came on the river (was just that kind of day).

I like your turn thoughts; I guess I was a little worried of a c/r turn ("the knucklehead caught 2 pr on the turn") so I just checked through hoping for a miracle. Well I got one, just the wrong one. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

balkii · #6 12-22-2003, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I kept trying to convince myself that that's whay I should have done. But in retrospect, betting the turn would have cost me 2 more BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? If you played like I suggest you bet the turn (1 BB). Middle card pairs on the river, he decides to go for a CR, but you smartly realize that the only thing he can call you with now that doesnt beat you is some crappy pocket pair or bottom pair, and you check behind. I only suggested betting the river if a blank hits, because he will often call with middle pair.

I agree with you, he's not folding his pair, that why you have to bet the turn, and sometimes the river. But if you bet the turn then check behind when the J hits the river you maximize your EV, getting all your bets in with the best of it and none with the worst.

Why are you so afraid of a check-raise? If he CRs the turn boom you're done with that hand. same 1 BB that it costs you to call his river bet, but he gets no free cards.

besides, it doesnt matter how much you lose as long as you play the hand correctly.

LetsRock · #7 12-22-2003, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you so afraid of a check-raise? If he CRs the turn boom you're done with that hand. same 1 BB that it costs you to call his river bet, but he gets no free cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess by checking through, I'm getting a chance at my miracle. If I get c/r, then I have to lay it down. As it turned out, he hit a 2-outer that would have cost me at least another BB by betting the turn.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there was some thought to my choice.