Two differences of opinion

We are getting good odds on a call, and if you go all in, there is no guarantee that both of them aren't going to call you.

If you call, you still got 8 bb's, may not seem like much, but if you call and the flop comes AK6, you can be safe to get out of their way and live to fight the good fight another time.

I don't see anything wrong with pushing either, but I also don't see a thing wrong with calling.

[rwanger]

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2nd hand is a push. You just don't have enough chips to get fancy, and you have decent equity so long as the blinds fold. I could see folding, but it doesn't look like it's an easy table.

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Do you really have good fold equity? The CO is getting 2:1 on his call, for about 1/3 of his stack. Unless he has total garbage, or you know he is capable of laying this down, he probably isn't folding to your reraise.

I'm not saying you shouldn't push, but if you're pretty sure the blinds will fold if you just call, and if you "know" he's going to call your reraise anyway, what about just calling, and then calling all-in (or hope he checks, and then push) on then flop. You might get him to fold when he misses (and give him two less streets to pair his overcard(s)).

[sirpupnyc]

Well, I'm not completely in favor of a push, since the raiser is almost certainly calling (he has almost 10x our stack) and once he's in the cold-caller has plenty good odds. Plus, cold-caller is either a moron (so he might actually fold in the face of good odds) thinking he could see a cheapish flop with his high-marginal hand, or he's sitting on a monster and suspected we'd push if he waited to get his money in.

But to me, that's still all argument for a fold rather than a call. (Though I've probably just called in situations very much like this one, and I'll probably do so again.)

[DonT77]

Hand 1-

Well, since OP was just moved to the table I'm guessing he probably didn't have a read on the players in the pot.

With deeper stacks I'd probably call and play for set value - but with this stack I think a case could be made for folding, calling, or pushing. However, since OP's "Q" is low (ratio of his stack to average stack) and his "M" is also small - I think I'd lean towards pushing and hoping to win a big pot.

Hand 2-

I think the poll results say everything you need to know about this hand.

[nath]

I voted push on both although now that I think about it, in hand 1 calling and pushing many flops is probably better. (Definitely any undercards flop, and raggedy flops with one overcard as well.)
Here's something: If you push hand 1, is the big stack going to call since it's only 350 more, or does he have to factor in that the stack behind him may play for all his chips, and decided he doesn't want to play for 900, and fold? (I don't know either!)

In hand 2, CO may be getting 2 to 1 but he will also call with some hands which we are better than 2 to 1 against and may fold some "race" hands (like JTs). Yes, yes, the push is trivially easy.

[DarrenX]

Thanks for the responses, guys- hand 2 was actually closer than I thought... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

As for calling in hand 1- this is the last thing I'd consider (obviously, considering the poll choices), which obviously tells me I'm missing something. Why I don't like calling: We're going to like approximately 10-15% of the flops we see, spending 20% of our stack. With a slightly bigger stack, I like calling, but I don't see the implied odds big enough here with how small our stack is- can you guys tell me what I'm missing?

Why I don't like pushing- We're at 10x the blinds, and lacking reads we have a big stack that raised 3x UTG+1 of which I would guess our FE is slim to none, and a short stack that cc for 20% of his stack, which, as another poster surmised, is a donk that probably won't fold or a monster leaving us at least 2-4 overcards and/or an overpair.

Folding leaves you 10x to fight another day, but maybe these are the +EV opportunities I'm passing up that keep me from a nice stack...?

In hand 1, flat calling with 88 here for 20% of your stack is pretty bad imho. I don't see how people can say there is nothing wrong with it. Arguements can be made for both pushing and folding in this spot, and a read could sway the decision, but I don't think calling here is good.