2/4 party turn oop against short stack

[spahk]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

BB ($426.30)
Hero ($493.10)
UTG+1 ($188.10)
MP1 ($140.94)
MP2 ($253.90)
CO ($350)
Button ($107)
SB ($123.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls $4, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls $4, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($16) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, Button calls $15, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($46) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero?

keep in mind that Button now has less than twice the pot left, so leading and folding to a raise is ugly. also, if anyone has anything to say about the flop bet, i'm all ears. telling me to fold preflop is probably right, but not interesting. thanks in advance.

[ajmargarine]

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telling me to fold preflop is probably right, but not interesting.

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Well, I'll tell you anyway. Fold preflop. You get a good flop, an awesome turn, and you're still in a spot. All because you played a fish hand preflop UTG.

Anyways...flop bet is fine. Turn you could bet $30, which wouldn't look weak and still fold to a villian push...although I think you should call it as a poetic justice lesson for playing that cheese UTG. I would probably value bet both turn and river, hoping he has Tx and calls me down. If he's got a flush, oh well, not much you can do. He could have been drawing to the little straight, just as easily as the flush; or he could have Tx or JJ.

[xorbie]

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[ QUOTE ]
telling me to fold preflop is probably right, but not interesting.

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Well, I'll tell you anyway. Fold preflop. You get a good flop, an awesome turn, and you're still in a spot.

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That's bullshit. Pretend he has AJ here. Flop J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], turn A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

That said, fold preflop. It just doesn't really affect the particular line here. FWIW, I see nothing wrong with betting $25 or so and probably folding to a push, can't imagine it's anything you beat and unless you've seen this guy get frisky before, I'm sure he isn't just doing this with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Tx.

[ajmargarine]

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That's bull****. Pretend he has AJ here. Flop J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], turn A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

That said, fold preflop. It just doesn't really affect the particular line here.

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I did think of the situation as you did xorbie. Top two pair in this situation OOP. And, you're right, it doesn't affect the line. But, when you play cheese, you often find yourself in spots like Hero is in, and that's all I said, was that he was in a spot.

There is no good line here. He either has a flush or he doesn't. And there's really no way for you to find out. If you bet $25-$30, he can still push with a bit of FE, and bluff the flush. If you check, he can represent the flush as well, or get a free card with a random diamond. If you bet pot or more, he gets away from all the hands you dominate, and you lose more if he has the flush.