KK vs turn donk...

Aviston · #1 10-21-2005, 03:45 PM

Absolutely zero reads:

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero ...?

Nick Royale · #2 10-21-2005, 03:47 PM

I fold.

deception5 · #3 10-21-2005, 04:40 PM

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I fold.

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I would usually fold this as well. Why do we not want to give credit to an unknown UTG for an A or better here when he bets into 2 players on the expensive street? Especially at 1/2?

Nick Royale · #4 10-21-2005, 04:52 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
I fold.

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I would usually fold this as well. Why do we not want to give credit to an unknown UTG for an A or better here when he bets into 2 players on the expensive street? Especially at 1/2?

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I misread the action. A fold wouldn't be terrible, but I ilke raising as the last money I put into the pot as some posters already suggested better.

deception5 · #5 10-21-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I misread the action. A fold wouldn't be terrible, but I ilke raising as the last money I put into the pot as some posters already suggested better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise this against aggressive players but with no read I usually fold (maybe I played too much PokerStars). What range of hands is everyone thinking UTG is betting here? Flush draw? 7+flush draw? Flush draw + gs? Total bluff?

Nick Royale · #6 10-21-2005, 05:07 PM

My initial thought was that it was 4-ways on the turn and one player yet to act, ie he donked into 2 players. In this case I think it's a fold because the donk have to realise that he have zero folding equity when betting and the risk we're up against an A is greater against 4 players.

But in this situation I think he'll be bluffing or betting an inferior holding/draw at least 25% which is enough for us to raise for a free sd.

And this is most certainly a peculiar bet:
"A peculiar bet is likely to some from either a bluff or a really strong hand." - Sklansky

EDIT: I'm not sure that quote is 100% correct, but he has said something like that... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Shillx · #7 10-21-2005, 03:48 PM

Calldown HU. Raise here as we have a 3rd player to worry about who could very well have 5 outs. If the board were AJ33 or something I would just calldown here as well.

AdamL · #8 10-21-2005, 03:49 PM

What can we expect to see the donk bettor holding?

Aviston · #9 10-21-2005, 04:05 PM

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What can we expect to see the donk bettor holding?

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I have a hard time imagining he has anything other than an Ax hand here. If the flop had been a dud against my preflop raise, I could see him donkbetting any piece perhaps figuring the flop might've missed me.

WalkAmongUs · #10 10-21-2005, 04:10 PM

I call down and make a note of what he has and how he played it. I want to put him on a weak A, a likely aces up. A stronger A probably would have check-raised you.