Are blocking bets a good idea?

[Bolivia]

Blocking bets are a good idea only if they will get the job done. Remember against strong players they only appear as a weak lead, and if they have more the 3 brain cells they'll pounce on you to take the pot away from you.

I only recommemd block bets against players that are weak enough that they won't make a play at the pot, then they'll get the job done of controlling the size of money required for showdown.

Remember poker is all about trying not to have any tough decisions, which makes block bets a delicate play. If it's done right you get a showdown cheap, but if done against the wrong player you'll put yourself in a tough spot.

-bolivia

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But I do want to point out that when Ferguson makes references to "folding to a single bet" I believe he is referring more to a limit game.

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Exactly. Here's a mathematical way to understand the blocking bet in NL:

cEV check/call:

(pot)*(equity against villain's checking range)*(fraction of hands villain checks) + (fraction of hands villain bets)((pot + villain's bet) * (equity against villain's betting range) - (villain's bet) * (1-equity against villain's betting range))

cEV check/fold:

(pot)*(equity against villain's checking range)*(fraction of hands villain checks)

cEV bet/fold:

(pot+bet)*(equity against villain's calling range)*(fraction of hads villain calls with) + (pot)*(fraction of hands villain folds) - bet*(1-equity against calling range)*(fraction of calls) - bet * (fraction of time villain raises)

I'm sorry for not making this cleaner, but a nice way to interpret the results is that a blocking bet definitely has the potential to be profitable. In order for it to be so, you must bet an amount that would give you odds to call against your opponents range of hands, you must be pretty certain that your opponent would bet more than you if checked to, and your opponent must bluff raise very infrequently.

[Jason Strasser]

There are different types of bets that would fall under the category of a block bet. It is a mistake to lump them all into one group and try to come up with some form of analysis.

The important thing though to understand is that the larger your block bets, the less you get bluff raised. So sometimes I'll intentionally make a block small versus an aggro player with the intention of calling the raise. So the idea that you cant snap off bluffs using a block bet is usually bad.

If you arent comfortable hand reading its good to block a lot. You will not maximize your bluff equity, but you will generally make good FTOP happy plays.

-Jason

[Blindcurve]

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There are different types of bets that would fall under the category of a block bet.

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Typed by size? Or by future intention? I'm not sure what you mean here. It'd be great if you could provide a definition or some examples.

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The important thing though to understand is that the larger your block bets, the less you get bluff raised.

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So, when you a making a block bet with the intention of deterring a worse hand from stealing the pot from your mediocre holding, you want to bet the most you're willing to lose, or an amount that you think the Villain can't possibly raise without a better hand than yours, whichever is smaller?

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So sometimes I'll intentionally make a block small versus an aggro player with the intention of calling the raise. So the idea that you cant snap off bluffs using a block bet is usually bad.

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Here, it doesn't seem like you're blocking. It looks like you're inducing a bigger bluff by betting. That's the thing with block betting as a deterrent. It reads as weak as soon as it's read as a block.

I'm sure I'm missing something.

Incidentally, do they still play Netrek in Teer?

-D.

[SoBeDude]

I remember that hand they like to show in the ads for the WPT on the travel channel.

Turn goes check-check, then I think Laak checks the river on a scary board, Philips bets like 400K(?) on the river.

Laak folds his pocket 5s, Philips shows the bluff (J7 or J8 I think for total air). Laak dances around.

So giving your opponent a chance to bluff is not as valuable when he's capable of bluffing a bet big enough you can't call. (In this particular situation, I believe the pot was siginificant already)

Personally, I'd rather lead out and give myself the chance to win the existing pot, than checking, and reducing the chance I can win an even bigger pot.

Oh and like everything else in poker, this type of bet is situation-dependent. For example, if there is only a small pot and you have second pair on a straight board against an aggressive opponent, checking and calling a bet is often the best play.

But I think there are situations where the board gets scary, and you have a hand but it is weak, that a blocking bet can be useful.

When you're against a big stack, you're much shorter, and he can make a bet that if you call and lose can cripple you, but he can make that bet and lose that doesn't cripple him, and the board is somewhat scary. Then I think a blocking bet here can be useful. Here you can make a bet that looks like a value bet, but will most of the time only get raised if you're beaten.

Additionally, a blocking bet can save you money when you feel strongly that your opponent will bet the river and you want to call, but he will bet more than you want to call.

Your opponent has been the aggressor this hand. He has position. He raised PF and bet the flop and turn and you're still in. You think your opponent will bet ~4000 on the river. If you bet out 2750 or 3000, unless he is very strong he will simply call. So you can bet out and save chips. If your initial plan was to call his river bet (that you think will be 4000), you can bet out the 2750 or 3000 and save chips. If he just calls you got to showdown more cheaply (which was your goal). If he raises you you're probably beaten and can lay down, also saving you the difference between your bet and what he would have bet.

-Scott

[CardSharpCook]

I remember this hand from the Legends main event.

I have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP3 and open raise to 450. BB is the only caller.

Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, I bet 500, BB calls.

Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets 1000, I raise to 3K, he calls.
(this is my set-up bluff bet - he may fold to this one, but is sets up a big bluff on the river)

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB bets 3K. I had 6500 in my stack. I would have been unable to bluff at this and I've got to assume that he knew it. He bet the perfect amount to block a bluff. Unfortunately for him, I caught my 2 outer and called his bet (which also might have been nut-peddling) and he turned over K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He out-played me here.

[Jason Strasser]

Blindcurve,

I guess I am misusing the word block bet. I was talking about the block bet as a bet used when acting first on the river. A block bet is a form of a value bet. For me also a block bet can be used to induce a bluff raise, and I guess this doesn't fit under 'block bet' because it usually implies that you are folding to a raise, but I tend to lump it under block bet.

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So, when you a making a block bet with the intention of deterring a worse hand from stealing the pot from your mediocre holding, you want to bet the most you're willing to lose, or an amount that you think the Villain can't possibly raise without a better hand than yours, whichever is smaller?

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This comes down to your opponent. If he's good you're probably going to want to bet more because he's less likely to come over the top of a bigger river bet because it probably means a big chunk of his stack is going in. If the player is weak and wont bluff you bet smaller.

And no, I really don't ever play games in Teer. Its always chugging away with some EE or BME lab and manhandling the vending machines with my Duke card.

-Jason