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#1
11-02-2005, 08:13 PM
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Playing small ball
A hand from a live game over the weekend. 5/10 NL... the game isn't great but even the people who are not super action are bad and will make huge mistakes if given a chance.
Game is 8-handed right now. Folded to me in MP and I raise to $40 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Only the BB calls ($850) and I have him covered. BB is a tight player who will back down if shown aggression but can and will get out of line if he thinks he senses weakness. My image is probably tightest tighty on earth so if he was going to move chips on someone it would be me. Flop: ($85) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB leads for $50, I call. Turn: X[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Check, check. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB bets $90, I call. It felt weird not working in some aggression somewhere in the hand since I felt like I clearly had the best hand the whole time....but in the middle of the hand I kind of liked what was going on. I have metagame concerns about playing hands like this though which I will talk about later if people actually respond.... I like playing small pots (which is not the norm for this live game) but in the long run I think I am missing out on tons of value out of an irrational fear of aggro-ish opponents. I think I should have at least raised the river since I am more likely to get a curiosity call out of a worse king at that point and can easily fold to a re-raise. Thanks in advance, tpir 
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#3
11-02-2005, 09:37 PM
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Re: Playing small ball
Yeah, I think I bet turn or raise river. I raise river given how you've played it, but calling isnt horrible. Since you have a tight image, only KQ KJ (of the hands you beat) would call your river raise.
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#5
11-03-2005, 01:31 AM
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Re: Playing small ball
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I think I bet turn or raise river. I raise river given how you've played it, but calling isnt horrible. Since you have a tight image, only KQ KJ (of the hands you beat) would call your river raise. [/ QUOTE ] Actually that was part of the reason I did not raise/bet. I think he would have folded a dominated hand. As it played out... he had KT and was mad at me for not "raising him out sooner." The table thought I was a retard and I thought that my happiness was probably results-oriented. I think not raising here is a bad thing if it becomes my default play though for metagame reaons. Not that this game is tough... but a thinking player could catch on to the fact that my raises are more likely to be bluffs and draws since I give rope so often. So, everyone tell me how you mix it up in these spots. -tpir
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#6
11-03-2005, 01:37 AM
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Re: Playing small ball
[ QUOTE ]
bet turn [/ QUOTE ] See... that's my problem. I am taking the pot control/stack protection thing too far. I am afraid that my tight image will make people more likely to take shots at me and put me in tough spots when they check-raise semi-bluff the turn. How do you guys prevent that? Or should I just man up? Man, I am double thread hijacking my own thread [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] -tpir
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#7
11-03-2005, 01:41 AM
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Re: Playing small ball
not that this is a strength of mine at all for live play, but you should be able to develop a sense of strength or weakness from an opponent.
Typically live a c/r there means you're pwned anyway, much more so then online (where it can be a bluff or semibluff or SOMETIMES weaker hand like kq 'protecting' itself) so i'd bet the turn and if they move me off my hand, good for them. but that's a turn bet always
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#8
11-03-2005, 05:33 AM
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Re: Playing small ball
Your suspicions are right on: definitely very weak.
Raise flop. Bet turn. Value bet river. Checking behind on turn for pot control (esp. given your image) and value betting river is fine too. Kirk Edit: Okay, just read others' responses including your thread hijack [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]... FWIW, I try to play my bluffs, semi-bluff draws. and monsters all the same. I'm raising this flop b/c my opponents know that I'll bet/raise this flop about 75% of the time, thus I'm not losing the KJ+type hands right away since vs me they know they might still be good... however, they've also seen me raise UTG and unstack QQ w/33 on 3,6, T flop, which keep them from playing back at me very often. There's enough thinking opponents at 5/10NL+ that mixing up your game is a must. If you just call down w/ "good" hands and raise with bluffs, you become way too transparent. Kirk
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#9
11-03-2005, 05:47 AM
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Re: Playing small ball
[ QUOTE ]
A hand from a live game over the weekend. 5/10 NL... the game isn't great but even the people who are not super action are bad and will make huge mistakes if given a chance. Game is 8-handed right now. Folded to me in MP and I raise to $40 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Only the BB calls ($850) and I have him covered. BB is a tight player who will back down if shown aggression but can and will get out of line if he thinks he senses weakness. My image is probably tightest tighty on earth so if he was going to move chips on someone it would be me. Flop: ($85) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB leads for $50, I call. Turn: X[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Check, check. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB bets $90, I call. It felt weird not working in some aggression somewhere in the hand since I felt like I clearly had the best hand the whole time....but in the middle of the hand I kind of liked what was going on. I have metagame concerns about playing hands like this though which I will talk about later if people actually respond.... I like playing small pots (which is not the norm for this live game) but in the long run I think I am missing out on tons of value out of an irrational fear of aggro-ish opponents. I think I should have at least raised the river since I am more likely to get a curiosity call out of a worse king at that point and can easily fold to a re-raise. Thanks in advance, tpir [/ QUOTE ] BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!! RAISE FLOP!!!
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#10
11-03-2005, 12:10 PM
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Re: Playing small ball
[ QUOTE ]
See... that's my problem. I am taking the pot control/stack protection thing too far. I am afraid that my tight image will make people more likely to take shots at me and put me in tough spots when they check-raise semi-bluff the turn. [/ QUOTE ] There are people that semibluff/bluff (air or inferior K) checkraise turn, and people that don't. It doesnt sound like this guy is the former. Therefore, you can bet and fold if check-raised.
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