PSI Hands, Thoughts?

theBruiser500 · #1 10-11-2004, 08:55 PM

I think there were a couple of interesting hands in the PSI touranment. First there was Doyle Brunson raising to 12k, blinds of 1.5/3, antes of 300 with A2s, then Howard Lederer moves in for 80k I believe with AJo. I guess his stack size is such that if he raises he is pot comitted but why raise in the first place then? He risks so much to win such a small pot in situaiton where if he is called he will probably be slightly behind or behind by a lot. Also, he has people to act behind him... I don't get that play by him.

Then there was the hand with Brunson having A4o he limps in SB and Gus checks with T7, flop is AKx, Brunson checks, Gus checks. Turn is T, Brunson bets 10k and Hansen raises to 20k. What was Gus thinking when he did that? For metagame reasons, and to get a cheap showdown, and to disguise his hand if he hits?

rjc199 · #2 10-11-2004, 09:23 PM

I'm not a big time NL tourny player. But, I don't know what kind of move limping in the SB with A4o is. This is a raising hand every time. When Brunson doesn't bet the flop Hansen thinks he either has a monster or has a really weak hand. Anything else would bet this flop. When Brunson bets the turn when a semi-blank hits Gus can raise him and determine if Brunson has a monster or a weak hand. Gus raised because he figured he had the best hand with the ten's and if he was behind Brunson would re-raise and make it easy for Gus to decide what to do.

Gus obviously didn't read Brunson for an Ace, otherwise he would have folded to the turn bet. Brunson butchered the hand horribly. Especially since he check-called the river???? If he thought he was behind on the turn why did he even call a bet? If he thought Gus was making a move why didn't he check-raise the river blank? I have no clue what he was thinking.

donny5k · #3 10-11-2004, 09:45 PM

Maybe he thought he was ahead of enough hands to call, but no worse hand would call a river check-raise. Check-calling the river is a common play with a hand that figures to be best but won't be called by worse hands. How do you figure that he "butchered" the hand? This is a common play in any kind of hold'em not just "big time NL tourneys."

In fact you contradicted yourself in analysis. Gus was raising for information, and Doyle might have figured as such, so he didn't give any.

rjc199 · #4 10-11-2004, 09:47 PM

ok, but it just seemed so wrong to be playing top pair so weakly vs. Gus Hansen. I rarely see a top pair check-calling unless the board is really scary.

theBruiser500 · #5 10-11-2004, 11:52 PM

"Brunson butchered the hand horribly. "

Actually, I think most people will agree he played it fine. Your analysis is retarded

2005 · #6 10-12-2004, 07:57 AM

Checking and calling is a very powerful play in NL tournaments, especially against players like Gus Hansen who will bet alot of hands. You add a litle risk to your game because you give the other guy a chance to draw out on you for cheaper, but you can win more chips than you normally would in this spot by making a big re-raise on the turn. Unless Gus has a total brain-lapse and decides to call a bunch of chips w/ a T there.

Gavin Griffin

flawless_victory · #7 10-12-2004, 09:22 AM

i didnt see the hand, but from what you describe, check-calling seems the only way to play the river... your analysis is totally ridiculous... why dont you tell us how you wouldve played the river and why,,, then we can laugh at you...

soah · #8 10-12-2004, 10:10 AM

Raising the river with top pair and no kicker is a suicidal way to play NL.

freemont · #9 10-12-2004, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the river with top pair and no kicker is a suicidal way to play NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100% it's a situation where your check raise is only going to be called by a hand that you're beat by, Gus will not put one more chip in this pot beyond his river bet so what can Doyle hope to accomplish? I don't know exact betsizes, but from you description it seems like Doyle extracted the most chips possible from Gus given the situation. I think his play is fine, if not great...

GFunk911 · #10 10-12-2004, 10:38 AM

I'm not going to call you names or be a jerk like some posters. You weren't rude or incomprehensible like some posters, and there's no reason to turn this place into RGP with childish name calling just cause people don't agree with your analysis. I think you answered your own question with your analysis, without realizing it. Normally, an ace is the small blind is a raising hand yes. What Doyle was trying to do was add deception to his hand. if he completes and Gus checks, when an ace flops he's got to be very confident his pair of aces is good, even with the crap kicker. In addition, there's no way Gus can put him on an weak ace (a monster maybe, but not a weak ace). This prompted gus to actually raise Doyle when Doyle had the best hand. Doyle played the hand in a way that had a palyer with an inferior hand betting into him, but not enough to make Doyle fold. Isn't that a great play? Yeah, it could have turned out a lot of different ways, but the hand unfolded great for Doyle. He was pretty confident he was ahead, and Gus didn't make any bets that really put Doyle to a huge decision. I agree with the other posters, if Doyle reads that hansen is going to fire at the river with a reasonably sized bet that Doyle can call, check-calling is correct. If he bets outs, the odds favor Gus either folding or coming over the top, neither of which is desirable. Once he checks and Gus bets, raising isn't an option. He'll only get a call or raise from a hand that beats him, and Gus can't really have any hands that beat Doyle but will fold to a raise.