HPFAP Question "When The Blinds are Very Loose"

[joes28]

Since we are talking hold em poker for advanced players, I thought I would ask a question that I have had for a while. In the "When The Blinds are Very Loose" section of HPFAP Sklansky recommends limping hands like A6o on the button. My question is, does anyone actually do this? If so, how loose do the blinds have to be for you to do this? What about other hands?

Currently I am never limping on the button when it is folded to me.

[vmacosta]

I play against a few players who ALWAYS call a raise from BOTH blinds. These players usually play quite aggressively postflop so you have to have something worth taking the heat. A6o is tough to play in this spot since you miss the flop way too much but have too much of a hand to fold against these types. That said, I think it is HUGELY profitable when you limp with this hand because:
1) A limp cries out "I don't have an ace" so when an A does flop, you will get excessive action.
2) You can fold on the worst flops.
3) your opponents will frequently no longer have odds to draw to cards in this small pot so you can induce mistakes.
That said, this type of player is not the norm and a raise is usually called for (~90%?). In addition, there is one type of player whom I won't try this against, even if he does defend nearly 100%: the player who takes your limp as a sign of weakness and raises from the blinds with hands as bad as Q5s. Against this player, you still have to raise to make the hand play out a little more straightforward.

[wheeler]

When the blinds are loose calling stations I'll limp with lots of hands. Against this sort of player your profit comes from value betting them to death, so the plan is to see a flop cheaply: if you miss, you just fold, losing 1 SB; if you hit you make a few BB.

Against this sort of player, what are you trying to accomplish by raising wiht A6o? You have little folding equity, and it's a rather thin raise for value against two random hands. Furthermore, having the lead against loose passive players doesn't really accomplish anything, because you're going to give up the pot if you miss anyway.

[oreogod]

I belive S&M say to "almost always" raise if u think there is a 30 percent chance or more u can take the blinds.

[kiddo]

There is a big problem in HEFAP when they starts to talk about how to play against loose players. Somehow they are both loose and thinking players. They play like the other players in the book but suddenly starts to make some stupid extremly loose moves.

But normally a loose player is a bad player. A player loose enough to call anything from the blinds is a player we love to play with.

So, u raise A6o in this spot because:

1) A6o will win much more then its fair share against 2 unknown hands.

2) You got position against 2 unknown hands.

3) If someone is stupid enough to coldcall with trash from SB they are stupid enough to lose a lot postflop (passive or aggressive, doesnt matter). Make them pay while u can.

4) If they for some strange reason call everythings preflop but then suddenly starts to think and play well postflop they will normally raise everytime u limp from button so then u rather limp with AA then A6o.

5) Both will not call 100%, specially not from SB.

Of course u can always find an example when limping preflop is fine. But 99% this advice in HEFAP is used by players who dont like to play weak hands at all - specially not against LAGs - but they know they cant fold Axo first in on button so they pretend they do a good Sklansky/Malmuth move when they limp.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow they are both loose and thinking players.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know lots of live loose players who lose money, but they are excellent hand readers and do a great job of figuring out why a person is doing a given thing. they just apply the reasoning less to themselves, and try too hard to make plays.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a big problem in HEFAP when they starts to talk about how to play against loose players. Somehow they are both loose and thinking players. They play like the other players in the book but suddenly starts to make some stupid extremly loose moves.

[/ QUOTE ]
A large portion of the players players in my usual (live) 20/40 and 30/60 games are way too loose preflop, but are smart people and good hand readers and somewhat tricky postflop. There really are plenty of people like this in midlimit games and knowing how to play agaisnt them is important, at least for me. (I don't play midlimit games online, so you might be right that it is different there.)

[baronzeus]

I can't stop staring at your avatar. It's so awesome.