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  #1  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:54 AM
Hans Gruber Hans Gruber is offline
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Default I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

I've played NLHE for about a year now, and I've totally dedicated myself to becoming a winning player. I play $50 NL full ring and over my last ~30K hands, I'm a 8.4ptbb/100 winner, so obviously I am doing at least some things right. I've made a few cashouts over the last year, and I currently have $2,200 in the roll - more than enough to play 50 NL.

However, before I move up to 100NL and 200NL, I want to fix a few parts of my game, one of which is that I am probably too tight. I am at work right now, so I don't have all of my PT stats on me, but I am at an 11% VPIP over my last 30K hands. At 50NL I think this is not so bad, since everyone is so loose, but obviously this is pitifully low.

My strengths: I understand position, I can lay down top pair or an overpair, I play my strong hands fast, and I understand pot odds/implied odds. Also, for the few hands I do play, I almost always come in for a raise (except for small-medium PPs in EP).

My biggest weakness: The aforementioned 11 VPIP

Here are a few examples of hands that I am often unsure how to play prelop.

Suited connectors: When and where should I play these? Typically if I'm UTG, I fold them. I only play them in late position after a few limpers. Occasionally I'll call a raise if a few others have called the raise, especially if I think the original raiser has a big hand. Same with A-rag suited.

Suited broadway: (e.g. QTs, K10s, etc). I rarely play these hands at all unless I'm in position.

Blind stealing: Should I be playing complete trash on the button or cutoff if it's folded to me? For example, it's folded to you in the cutoff and you have 9-4o. Do you try to steal blinds/win pot on a flop continuation bet? Currently I do this but only if I have at least a halfway decent hand, like Q-10 or A-8, etc.

Calling raises: Here's where I'm VERY tight. If someone comes in for a "standard" raise, I'll only call/raise if I have a PP or A-K. How often should I be calling raises with suited connectors? A-Q?

I'd love to hear some input on this. For you players out there who are killing 50NL, what are your VPIPs? Obviously, there is no "correct" VPIP, but 11 is way too low, and people are going to start picking up on this the higher I move up. I just need to find a way to play 3-4 more hands per 100, that's all.
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:58 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

Before you get loose, practice getting agressive postflop. Call a raise with a pocket pair, but this time don't fold on a T high flop when you get bet into. Try calling and bet the turn if they check. Also limp suited connectors always on the button, as well as suited one gappers, regardless of limpers. Raise if first in. Practice makes perfect.
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

I think suited connectors and AXs are more playable than you think. I don't think I'd play them UTG unless the table was loose, but in later positions I don't need a couple of limpers. I'd smooth call a raise and hope more people come in behind me. I'd almost rather play them in a raised pot. Nothing sucks worse than flopping a straight and having nobody else hit. If somebody raises pre-flop, you have more of a chance of getting paid off when you do hit.

Calling raises, is very read dependent for me. If I have 50 hands on a dude who has only raised 1 before. I'll fold AQ. If he is at 15%, I'll reraise .

The other examples you give, I agree with you. BTW I'm at 22% playing 9-max.
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:37 AM
Hans Gruber Hans Gruber is offline
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

[ QUOTE ]
Calling raises, is very read dependent for me. If I have 50 hands on a dude who has only raised 1 before. I'll fold AQ. If he is at 15%, I'll reraise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting Mike, this is something that I do not do. I'm fairly new to PokerTracker...do you just keep a pokertracker session open at all times so you can reference certain players, or is there a way to import stats for players into your pokerstars notes?

I always see people referencing PFR stats. What are the typical numbers for PFR (i.e. what is considered low and high?)
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  #5  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:38 AM
scdavis0 scdavis0 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4
Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

[ QUOTE ]
I've played NLHE for about a year now, and I've totally dedicated myself to becoming a winning player. I play $50 NL full ring and over my last ~30K hands, I'm a 8.4ptbb/100 winner, so obviously I am doing at least some things right. I've made a few cashouts over the last year, and I currently have $2,200 in the roll - more than enough to play 50 NL.

However, before I move up to 100NL and 200NL, I want to fix a few parts of my game, one of which is that I am probably too tight. I am at work right now, so I don't have all of my PT stats on me, but I am at an 11% VPIP over my last 30K hands. At 50NL I think this is not so bad, since everyone is so loose, but obviously this is pitifully low.

My strengths: I understand position, I can lay down top pair or an overpair, I play my strong hands fast, and I understand pot odds/implied odds. Also, for the few hands I do play, I almost always come in for a raise (except for small-medium PPs in EP).

My biggest weakness: The aforementioned 11 VPIP

Here are a few examples of hands that I am often unsure how to play prelop.

Suited connectors: When and where should I play these? Typically if I'm UTG, I fold them. I only play them in late position after a few limpers. Occasionally I'll call a raise if a few others have called the raise, especially if I think the original raiser has a big hand. Same with A-rag suited.

Suited broadway: (e.g. QTs, K10s, etc). I rarely play these hands at all unless I'm in position.

Blind stealing: Should I be playing complete trash on the button or cutoff if it's folded to me? For example, it's folded to you in the cutoff and you have 9-4o. Do you try to steal blinds/win pot on a flop continuation bet? Currently I do this but only if I have at least a halfway decent hand, like Q-10 or A-8, etc.

Calling raises: Here's where I'm VERY tight. If someone comes in for a "standard" raise, I'll only call/raise if I have a PP or A-K. How often should I be calling raises with suited connectors? A-Q?

I'd love to hear some input on this. For you players out there who are killing 50NL, what are your VPIPs? Obviously, there is no "correct" VPIP, but 11 is way too low, and people are going to start picking up on this the higher I move up. I just need to find a way to play 3-4 more hands per 100, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your win rate is sick. Don't change a thing baby.
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:45 AM
Hans Gruber Hans Gruber is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

I forgot to mention that I 8-table as well, which invariably will make me a little tighter. I think 8-tabling, if I could have a VPIP of 15-18, I'd be pretty happy. I'd rather be tight and have a tight image too. It'll keep you out of trouble, and at the higher levels it will allow you to bluff here and there.

I appreciate the responses thus far...keep 'em coming.
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calling raises, is very read dependent for me. If I have 50 hands on a dude who has only raised 1 before. I'll fold AQ. If he is at 15%, I'll reraise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting Mike, this is something that I do not do. I'm fairly new to PokerTracker...do you just keep a pokertracker session open at all times so you can reference certain players, or is there a way to import stats for players into your pokerstars notes?

I always see people referencing PFR stats. What are the typical numbers for PFR (i.e. what is considered low and high?)

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerTracker works best in conjunction with either GameTime+ (free) or PokerAceHud ($25). You have the villains stats displayed in a HUD overlayed on top of the table. I don't know a way to import the stats into poker stars notes though.

I see you 8 table. Jeez if I played that many at once, I'd probably play tight too! I've tried 4 and ended up being glad when I could just fold pre-flop.
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  #8  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

[ QUOTE ]
I just need to find a way to play 3-4 more hands per 100, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd prefer you find a way to play more than that, and raise more often as well. When you're playing solid competition, it's important to outplay them pre-flop. But you're taking on donks, and so you should want to see more flops because you know you're going to outplay them post-flop.

This does not mean playing ace-rag, paint-rag, or calling raises with KJ. But I like to play pairs and big cards early, rags in the cutoff or button.

But then I read that you 8-table, which means that you are only playing ABC poker and you are essentially nut hunting.

That's fine. You're obviously beating the game and making good money out of it. You won't get away with that when you move to higher levels, but lower levels are enough of a donkfest where you can ABC all day.

If you start to find that players won't give you action, start picking good spots for a bluff -- not often -- and advertise it. Make notes on which players you've shown bluffs to, and play nut hands the same way in the future. Tight players with vpips in your range can go stretches where no one will give them any action. Find a way to change that.
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  #9  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:31 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,828
Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot to mention that I 8-table as well, which invariably will make me a little tighter. I think 8-tabling, if I could have a VPIP of 15-18, I'd be pretty happy. I'd rather be tight and have a tight image too. It'll keep you out of trouble, and at the higher levels it will allow you to bluff here and there.

I appreciate the responses thus far...keep 'em coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

i 8 table the 6max games and still keep my 28/15 stats. dont let that be your excuse [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: I\'m a winning player, but I\'m too tight!

Xorbie -- I love 28/15 for 6-max. Do you have a desired vpip and pfr for full ring?
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