Shady potential fraud and thievery (long)

[soko]

Deadly habits, they could be a number of things
Everybody got 'em, some people do ugly things
Excessive behaviour, it can get the best of you
Trust me, I'm a lot like the rest of you
I got issues, that haven't been resolved
You know like, money people owe me while they out havin a ball

[2planka]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, when last we spoke everyone advised that Sean not do this, that it was not worth it. Well, despite the fact that I showed him this post (which he laughed a bit at). He did not listen. Sean transfered 500 from Dave's account onto a third parties account on an unnamed poker site. Sean promptly lost all of it playing 2/4NL. Then, Sean transferred another 200 onto the same site, and lost it playing 2/4. Finally...

...…PS: Sean overdrafted Dave's account, and apparently the site only draws out in $50 increments, so we suspect Dave has around 300 in overdraft fees, since each fee is 31 dollars, and Sean took out 800 dollars, and overdrafted Dave's account hardcore.


[/ QUOTE ]

Be sure to tell the court reporter to copy/paste this post into the record.

Ah to be 17 again....

[CORed]

Withdrawing funds from somebody's bank account without their permission is fraud and theft, notwithstanding the fact that the victim owes the thief money. IMO, ethical considerations aside, it's not worth the risk. $700 in most states is enough to make it a felony. Even if Sean gets probation rather than jail time because it's a first offense, a felony conviction will seriously limit his future job opportunities, may make him ineligible to vote and will make it illegal to ever own a firearm (which may or may not be important to Sean) Sean's best option is to write off the debt, and realize that Dave should not be trusted to repay loans. If Sean really wants to pursue the matter, he should file a small claims suit, although if there is no written IOU or promissory note, he may not win his case. Also, a small claims judgement is no guarantee of getting paid, although it might entitle Sean to legally sieze funds from Dave bank account, or put a lien on Dave's property.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have painfully discovered that Poor Richard was right,

"Neither a borrower or lender be."!


[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, that was ben franklin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poor Richard was the fictiitous author of "Poor Richards Almanac", created by Ben Franklin

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have painfully discovered that Poor Richard was right,

"Neither a borrower or lender be."!


[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, that was ben franklin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm... no it wasn't.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/254800.html

The degree of stupidity exhibited in this thread is astonishing.

I am amused.

[GrannyMae]

will dave gime gum for the debt? 3 hummers sounds fair if he swallows.

if so, problem solved.

[Sarge]

I did not read all the replys to this post so I may cover something already said. First of all, overall I am very surprised at the number of ethical people posting on this topic and the tax topics and other such topics in this forum. Here are my thoughts from a law enforcement perspective.

The initial transaction between Sean and Dave is civil. Nothing the police can do there. The only legal recourse would be to sue Dave in civil court for the money.

If Sean carried out the fraud and theft ($700 is a felony in my State), that would be criminal. First, Dave would have to report it to the police, if that did not occur obviously nothing would be done. Once reported, it would be relatively easy to prove that Sean did it with Dave reporting him as a suspect. Sean's computer would be seized among other things. It would not matter if Sean 'dumped' the money to a 3rd person or that PP is not in the US. The theft and fraud occurred in the jusrisdiction where the crime was committed. Those are the real possiblities.

I could comment on the penalty for the crimes but I have become very cynical of that part of the criminal justice system over the long time I have been involved, however I would add that a lot of jurisdictions would require restitution making the amount Sean was out to Dave $1400 besides the cost of court, attorneys, etc.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
This story begins over a year ago when Sean and Dave were roomates (names changed for confidentiality reasons).

[/ QUOTE ]

How do we know that you're not using reverse psychology and using the real names here in an attempt to subvert our attempts to determine their true identities?

[GrannyMae]

How do we know that you're not using reverse psychology and using the real names here in an attempt to subvert our attempts to determine their true identities?


heh

ni han