BK and I disagree

Schneids · #1 09-29-2005, 04:27 AM

This hand occured tonight at Canterbury $30/60, in which BK and I disagree about which is the right flop decision.

3 limpers to BK in the CO and he raises. Our hero (not me) cold calls with 33. Both blinds call. 7 to the flop.

Flop 554 two clubs (hero has 3c). Checked to our hero on the button.

Background: SB is very LAG, would have likely bet out here with any piece of the board. He plays decent in big pots and isn't afraid to splash around. There's a chance he'll checkraise with overcards, and likely will take one off. BB is likely to get out unless he has flopped a good draw or made hand. Ditto UTG. UTG+1, another limper, is a tight player who is likely on tilt at the moment and loosening up his hand range because he's running bad. MP1, our last limper, is someone who sees 50% of flops and chases too often post flop, but likely would have bet into BK with any piece or draw. CO is BK, our PFR.

So, we're likely looking at a bet eliminating 1-4 opponents, most likely 2-3.

Should he bet here or check?

mike l. · #2 09-29-2005, 04:32 AM

given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

baronzeus · #3 09-29-2005, 04:34 AM

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given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

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plus you have awesome position and you can hope that SB check-raises overcards or something and clears out a huge field for you

i vote bet

The Truth · #4 09-29-2005, 04:35 AM

What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

-blake

Schneids · #5 09-29-2005, 04:35 AM

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given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

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Not to bias answers, but this is exactly what I told my roommate (hero) in the carride back to our apartment. He did bet and a few minutes after the hand BK was telling him he should have checked the flop for a free shot at a 2-outer since it's unlikely he'd win the pot unimproved.

Maybe someone else will come on here and explain why that is right but I was just floored hearing that BK thought this flop should be checked through.

Schneids · #6 09-29-2005, 04:37 AM

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What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

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Not too often. Most CB hands follow flow and outside of about 6-8 young guys in this game almost nobody ever donk bets (and if any of these guys do, you are beat).

baronzeus · #7 09-29-2005, 04:39 AM

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What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

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Not too often. Most CB hands follow flow and outside of about 6-8 young guys in this game almost nobody ever donk bets (and if any of these guys do, you are beat).

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i'd like to see bk's reasoning here because with your read on SB combined with this it's a clear bet no?

mike l. · #8 09-29-2005, 04:39 AM

"I was just floored hearing that BK thought this flop should be checked through."

only thing i could think is bk wasnt fully honest he just wished 33 button had checked so he could get a free look at the turn with his K9s or whatever. understandable sentiment.

anyway the large pot size dictates everything here and this is not a time to take the free card. it would be correct to bet a lot of hands on the button when checked to here in an attempt to take control of the hand, clean up outs, clear out players, and set it up to be yours if at all possible. 33 is more than sufficient enough hand to bet here.

Ulysses · #9 09-29-2005, 04:53 AM

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7 to the flop.

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Checked to our hero on the button.

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SB is very LAG, would have likely bet out here with any piece of the board. ... There's a chance he'll checkraise with overcards

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Should he bet here or check?

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Bet!

bicyclekick · #10 09-29-2005, 05:36 AM

If schneids descriptions were true then I like a bet.

SB isn't nearly the lag he's making him out to be and he's not check/raising over cards here on this flop with the lineup. And the whole blinds/utg etc will fold without a draw/made hand is just freaking crap. I can't count how many times a late position player and EVERY SINGLE PLAYER (read: like 6!) would call the bet. If they have over cards they're calling.

There is no reason to bet this flop given the line-up. You might clear out one, be forced to bet the turn again cause the pot is so huge and given the field I just don't think you're ahead and going to stay ahead often enough to justify betting instead of taking a free turn card. You may even not get to see if it gets raised and re-raised.