After SSHE

[PJS]

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I've read HPFAP already. It's got some interesting ideas in it. However, every time I've tried to play limit, I have no clue what the hell is going on. I can't understand people that call all the way to the river with nothing. The guys play such a wide variety of hands, I'm not sure what hands I should be playing and how I should be playing them. I'd like to expand myself and include limit hold em into the games I already play. Perhaps I should start with SSHE?

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Yes. SSH gives an extensive discussion on why you should play certain hands and not others.

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I remember skimming through Ed Miller's new book, "Getting Started in Hold'em", and I seem to remember that he had book recommendations for continuing your poker education in there.

I don't remember what they are, but it's a place to look.

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If I had read this book before I wrote GSIH, I would have recommended it without question in my limit hold 'em section. It's excellent. Best limit hold 'em hand problems book that exists today. Its only problem is that it could/should be twice the length. But it's terrific.

I was particularly impressed because not only is the advice and thought process consistently good, but he asks the right questions. He probes the key areas where people lose most of their money, and his scoring system reflects the fact that he knows these are the most important areas.

I give it 10/10. I think the best limit hold 'em books available today are (not going to be humble about my own):

Beginner level:
Getting Started in Hold 'em by me
Winning Low Limit Hold 'em, 3rd Edition only by Lee Jones
Internet Texas Hold 'em by Matthew Hilger

Intermediate Level:
Small Stakes Hold 'em by me, David, and Mason
Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players by David and Mason
Weighing the Odds in Limit Hold 'em by King Yao
How Good is Your Limit Hold 'em by Jacobs and Brier

I think there's a large falloff after these. In fact, I think I'd recommend an aspiring limit hold 'em player to read these seven and only these seven books... at least only these seven until they've become a strongly winning player.

EDIT: Feeney's book, Inside the Poker Mind, is also excellent, but I wouldn't necessarily clasify it as a "limit hold 'em book." But an aspiring limit hold 'em player certainly should read it as well.

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This is a better (more detailed) answer than what he wrote in his own book. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[binions]

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Every time I've tried to play limit, I have no clue what the hell is going on. I can't understand people that call all the way to the river with nothing. The guys play such a wide variety of hands, I'm not sure what hands I should be playing and how I should be playing them. Perhaps I should start with SSHE?

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Long ago, I ran some simulations on Turbo Texas Holdem that were confirmed by Ed's tight game starting hand recommendations in SSHE. Glad to see that they are also verified by the Poker Room stats:

Typically, in limit your bread and butter will be suited cards that add to 20 or 21 if you were playing blackjack, pairs AA-77, and the best offsuit cards (AK-AJ, KQ).

In raised pots, you will need to fold some of the weaker hands in this group, and mostly re-raise with the others. You should not cold call a raise very often.

As your position improves, you can add in AXs, cards that add to 19 suited and ATo + KJo.

In very loose games, you can see the flop from any position with any pair or suited ace.

After 2-3 limpers, suited connectors are getting the right price to call in mid to late position.

In the SB, you can typically complete with any suited hand in a limped pot getting 6:1 or better and offsuit 0-gappers getting 8:1 or better.

Bottom line, you should be seeing the flop about ~15% of the time outside the blinds.

But all that's the easy part. Money is made in limit with your post flop play. There are far more multiway pots and far more turn and river cards seen with betting left in limit than big bet holdem. And to help understand that, you'll need to read the books Ed is talking about.

Based on what I've seen, J4o, 10-5o seem to be the best. At least, those are the hands other guys seem to be playing against me whenever I try limit. Oh, and Q6o is another one. In NL, you can chase that crap out preflop, it's impossible in limit when all it costs the guy is another bet.

[PJS]

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Based on what I've seen, J4o, 10-5o seem to be the best. At least, those are the hands other guys seem to be playing against me whenever I try limit. Oh, and Q6o is another one. In NL, you can chase that crap out preflop, it's impossible in limit when all it costs the guy is another bet.

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That is why the games are profitable. Over time, these guys will be big losers. It is a nightmare when people crack KK with garbage, but as long as you have a bankroll big enough to get you through the bad periods, they will eventually hold up and crush the guys who are chasing you down with their garbage hands.

Besides, when you have a long term advantage, why do you want to chase out Q6 offsuite against your AA anyway. Without calls like this, games wouldn't be so juicy!

Why chase them out, so they don't suck out with that garbage. I'll tell you what, although I've not played a lot of limit, every time I have had monster hands like AA, KK, QQ, AKs, they have never won, not one single time.

[PJS]

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Why chase them out, so they don't suck out with that garbage. I'll tell you what, although I've not played a lot of limit, every time I have had monster hands like AA, KK, QQ, AKs, they have never won, not one single time.

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So what you are saying is: when you hold AA or KK you want to chase everyone out of the pot and just pick up the blinds [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

No, but I do want to reduce the number of opponents and it seems when you raise pre-flop in limit, it encourages people to call.

[PJS]

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No, but I do want to reduce the number of opponents and it seems when you raise pre-flop in limit, it encourages people to call.

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In limit Hold'em you are not raising pre flop with big hands to thin the field. You are raising with them because you are pushing your pot equity advantage.

"In limit Hold'em you are not raising pre flop with big hands to thin the field. You are raising with them because you are pushing your pot equity advantage."
English please.