Agnosticism in Doubt

Some agnostics claim that their philosophy is the only logically defensible position. This may be true, but it is also an inadequate philosophy to live by. It would be better for a person to jump back and forth between atheism and theism than to linger in paralytic agnostic doubt. There is some good to be found in the modesty and honesty of the agnostic position, but its lack of courage is disheartening and weak. Just as one should not go through life without taking risks, one should not adopt a philosophy that is scared to assert itself out of fear of being wrong.

[chezlaw]

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Some agnostics claim that their philosophy is the only logically defensible position. This may be true, but it is also an inadequate philosophy to live by. It would be better for a person to jump back and forth between atheism and theism than to linger in paralytic agnostic doubt. There is some good to be found in the modesty and honesty of the agnostic position, but its lack of courage is disheartening and weak. Just as one should not go through life without taking risks, one should not adopt a philosophy that is scared to assert itself out of fear of being wrong.

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Its not fear of being wrong so your conclusion is wrong.

chez

[I'm ignoring the athiest/agnostic debacle]

[Matt R.]

What is wrong in saying "I don't know" when there is zero concrete evidence to support one view or the other? Not knowing the truth and thus not pulling an answer out of your ass just to have an answer is not "lack of courage". It's simple intellectual honestly. It's actually extremely arrogant (and stupid?) to pretend you have the answer to something when you really have no clue.

Your position is akin to someone reading a math proof, having no idea what the notation even means, then saying "I disagree with this" just for the sake of having an opinion.

why the need to decide.. especially if you leaning toward the atheism side? I think most atheists are at least roaming in the agnostic territory when they give even miniscule odds to a god's existence.

besides i think most agnostics just say they are to their religious friends so that they don't try to lecture them.

most agnostics are probably closet atheists

I'm always amazed when I hear this, what do you think agnostics are 'afraid' of? Adopting a commonly held position that nobody cares about or would think less of them over? That a belief may make life easier to lead is not sufficient reason to adopt it. It's about a pursuit of truth, adopting any position for any reason other than an honest belief that you've acquired that truth, shows a lack of intellectual integrity.

This is similar to the whole 'flip flopping' thing with politicians. It infuriates me that it's somehow become culturally bad to not commit to an answer when the information is unclear. That kind of skepticism and openness is an absolute requirement of intellectual integrity IMO, and generally a sign of intelligence. And I'm certainly not saying that any given a/theist can't be in a position where their viewpoint has that integrity, perhaps they've seen or realised something that I haven't. But for anyone who doesn't have any extra insight, and who has just chosen that position to commit to something or avoid being weak-willed - to me that is an idiotic reason to adopt a belief system.

It's certainly true that the life well led should involve risk taking, but that's concerned with actions, not academic positions. There is no black and white with most philosophical questions, but on the God issue, I suspect most agnostics would say we aren't even close to having access to the sort of info to decide.

I think a better alternative to agnosticism is to come to some sort of philosophical conclusion about god's existence (or lack thereof). (Since science won't do it, philosophy has to.) After coming to the conclusion for himself, he should live with it for a while, let it sink in, have faith in it. I'm not saying he should stop questioning it; on the contrary, he can only question it truly once he has lived with it. This is the only way to really know a philosophical position imho.

I am all for intellectual honesty. The only way to achieve this though is to experience the philosophy you hold. Agnosticism is afraid in the sense that it doesn't want to experience, it just sits outside and watches the show.

[chezlaw]

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I think a better alternative to agnosticism is to come to some sort of philosophical conclusion about god's existence (or lack thereof). (Since science won't do it, philosophy has to.) After coming to the conclusion for himself, he should live with it for a while, let it sink in, have faith in it. I'm not saying he should stop questioning it; on the contrary, he can only question it truly once he has lived with it. This is the only way to really know a philosophical position imho.

I am all for intellectual honesty. The only way to achieve this though is to experience the philosophy you hold. Agnosticism is afraid in the sense that it doesn't want to experience, it just sits outside and watches the show.

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So how do I do this believing something I dont believe lark?

chez

not sure exactly what you mean, can you clarify the question?

[Lestat]

I'm still not sure what I am. Perhaps someone could help me identify myself? I've recently been called a "scoffer", but I don't like that term and don't think it fits.

I flat out don't believe there is a god. Is it possible there is a god? I would think it IS possible. I just don't think it's likely. In fact, I think it's so unlikely that I went from calling myself an agnostic to an atheist. Yet, I will still concede a god is possible. If ever given a reason to believe, I wouldn't deny God. It seems many non-believers take atheism to a religious level themselves. I don't advocate that. I have no problem with "In God we trust" on American coins, or "One nation under God" in the pledge, as a form of tradition and/or unity. I am not worried about my children's rights being violated in shcool over this or our country being unable to seperate church and state. In other words, I am not ANTI - God with a vengeance.

So am I waffling? Am I weak or wishy-washy? Am I an agnostic, or an atheist?

[chezlaw]

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not sure exactly what you mean, can you clarify the question?

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I dont believe in god, your saying I should try out believing in god. I'm game, tell me how to do it?

chez