VPIP of SSHE?

RacersEdge · #1 05-01-2005, 03:01 AM

I was just reviewing the starting hand recommenations of SSHE for the loose game. Does anyone know what the VPIP would be if you played strictly by these rules? I'm right around 20, and it looks like SSHE would be above that - more like 25 with all the pairs and QXs it recomends playing.

EliteNinja · #2 05-01-2005, 03:33 AM

I agree that it is quite high.
But you need to realize that it is suited for more live games with higher percentage of flops seen by other players on average.

splashpot · #3 05-01-2005, 04:05 AM

I follow the "tight" suggestions somewhat closely for online play. My VP$P is approx 17.85%

Schwartzy61 · #4 05-01-2005, 12:15 PM

Well I did some work on this and if you use an average PFR of 5 for everyone at the table (it was the avg in my database), and considering a 10 handed table you should have a VP$IP around:

This is by no means a perfect statistic, it does ignore the probability of being raised and reraised before the action gets to you, but it does give a good generalization of what the VP$IP and PFR under SSHE recommendations...

Tight Games Recommendations: VP$IP 15.26 - PFR 6.37
Loose Games Recommendations: VP$IP 19.46 - PFR 7.72

I could quickly and easily redo it if someone has a better/more likely number to use for PFR for the rest of the table.

RacersEdge · #5 05-01-2005, 12:35 PM

Interesting. 19 seems really low for the loose game and PFR = 5 sounds reasonable. Like I said, I'm about VPIP = 20, and I can't think of 1 hand that I do play not being on his list. All the differences are hands I'm not playing.

splashpot · #6 05-01-2005, 01:12 PM

You shouldn't follow the SSH chart blindly though. For example, the number of limpers before you is incredibly important when making preflop decisions, but is not accounted for in the chart.

Schwartzy61 · #7 05-01-2005, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't follow the SSH chart blindly though. For example, the number of limpers before you is incredibly important when making preflop decisions, but is not accounted for in the chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yes and no, if at anytime the game you are playing acts more like a game of the opposite chart for which you are following, you should revert to the other chart. So in that sense you can make adjustments for the limpers or lack thereof.

You also have to consider the competition, and whether they are "respectable" raises. If there are multiple coldcallers before your turn you can loosen up against a raise. Like I said, this is not a perfect statistic, but if you did follow it religiously those would be very close to the numbers you would get over the extreme long haul.

And this is certainly not a recommendation to follow the chart blindly, but its not like that would be the worst preflop strategy one could adopt.

Schwartzy61 · #8 05-01-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. 19 seems really low for the loose game and PFR = 5 sounds reasonable. Like I said, I'm about VPIP = 20, and I can't think of 1 hand that I do play not being on his list. All the differences are hands I'm not playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget your sample size is small compared to what those numbers will represent over years of playing the exact same game against the exact same PFR of 5%. If you are getting better hands than average your VP$IP is going to be higher than normal.

splashpot · #9 05-01-2005, 02:26 PM

You're on the button with 45s. Everyone folds to you. You should fold even though the tight chart says to call. Just one example of how following the charts would be incorrect.

Schwartzy61 · #10 05-01-2005, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You're on the button with 45s. Everyone folds to you. You should fold even though the tight chart says to call. Just one example of how following the charts would be incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, the percentage of the times this will ever happen are extremely slim. At a table of all 25% VPIPs you would still only be folded to on the button about 13% of the time, if I'm calculating that properly. And of that 13% of the time you would have to have one of the hands that you say is incorrect to limp with, which is probably about 4%-5% of hands overall, so you run into this situation as far as I can tell about 0.65% of all hands played. Or roughly 2 hands per 300 hands played. Now I don't think an error in this spot is gonna make a big difference in your overall win rate.

The chart doesn't say when to attempt a blind steal either. So it is obviously devoid in some areas if you haven't read the book.

Just to reiterate I'm not saying you should follow the chart blindly, or that it is the best way to play. All I'm trying to point out is the fact that it isn't the worst thing you could do in terms of preflop strategy. It certainly wouldn't be -EV to follow the chart religiously. Certainly you will be able to point out certain situations where it will suggest a -EV play, but in terms of the whole strategy over 50k hands, it is not -EV to play that way preflop.

The guy asked for the info and I provided it.

It is much better to read the sections before and immediately after the charts and apply the strengths and weaknesses of every hand to the game context. However, in terms of a "Quick Reference Guide" when your mind is drawing a blank on that QTs you are staring at in MP2 w/ 3 limpers already in, I think it works pretty well.