When you're BB and connect with the flop for free.. now what ?

tjh · #1 07-25-2005, 01:03 AM

Ultimate bet $22 SNG early in the game, about hand #25 or so. I am in the BB and connect with the top card on the flop but my kicker is lame. What do I do ??

I am looking for leaks and perhaps this is one ??

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t40 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1405)
MP1 (t2750)
MP2 (t2825)
CO (t1765)
Button (t855)
SB (t1865)
Hero (t1600)
UTG (t1935)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t140) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t80, MP2 raises to t380, CO folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t600

Results in white below: 
No showdown. MP2 wins t600.

Isura · #2 07-25-2005, 01:05 AM

Yeah, I think betting this into 2 players on this flop is a not good. I'd check/fold.

skierdude1000 · #3 07-25-2005, 01:10 AM

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Yeah, I think betting this into 2 players on this flop is a good move. I'd bet and fold to a raise.

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jeffraider · #4 07-25-2005, 01:22 AM

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Yeah, I think betting this into 2 players on this flop is a good move. I'd bet and fold to a raise.

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Booo, you'll get called or raised way too often on this board and be forced to throw your hand away to worse hands or get lured deeper in by bigger hands. I think check-folding is best here.

sahala · #5 07-25-2005, 01:25 AM

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Yeah, I think betting this into 2 players on this flop is a good move. I'd bet and fold to a raise.

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Ok...so how much do you bet? 1/2 pot, pot? In each instance, what's the plan for a call or re-raise? I just don't think this hand gains much by betting.

tshort · #6 07-25-2005, 01:26 AM

You should re-word subject:

When you're BB and connect to a free flop where many other hands could have connected better ... now what?

Check/fold

skierdude1000 · #7 07-25-2005, 01:28 AM

Maybe in this case it's a stretch because it's a suited board, but usually if you connect like this on a non-suited board, you gotta bet it out

Slim Pickens · #8 07-25-2005, 01:35 AM

Your problem here is by betting, you've given your opponents the opportunity to bluff you. Check to see what happens behind you. Fold to any decent-sized bet. If someone throws out a min bet after everyone has checked, you can raise it to the size of the pot and fold to a call, a la Layne Flack vs. Jerry Buss. Even the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has proper implied odds to call or raise your flop bet (they won't pay if they don't hit, and they're not even a severe dog). FWIW I wouldn't call TPnK "connecting."

SlimP

bluefeet · #9 07-25-2005, 01:54 AM

IMO TPxK out of the blinds is best played assuming a cautious check/call line. and by cautious, i'm not calling anything close to 1/2 pot. if you can call behind a weak min-1/3ish probe type bet than do so. you're leading out is only building a pot that you cannot to afford doing on the turn (especially on this coordinated flop). if the lead show similar weakness on the turn, and you find yourself HU, you could consider a modest reraise at this point.

tjh · #10 07-25-2005, 02:32 AM

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IMO TPxK out of the blinds is best played assuming a cautious check/call line. and by cautious, i'm not calling anything close to 1/2 pot. if you can call behind a weak min-1/3ish probe type bet than do so. you're leading out is only building a pot that you cannot to afford doing on the turn (especially on this coordinated flop). if the lead show similar weakness on the turn, and you find yourself HU, you could consider a modest reraise at this point.

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This forum has gotten really informative lately.

Thanks guys !!

For what it is worth I see nothing wrong with the fact that it is all spades. Judging by the well reasoned opinions on both sides I would say that this is close. It is UB and stacks allow for a little more speculation. In the future I will perhaps check this.

The risk of checking however is that it requires me to assess the meaning of a bet if it is bet to me. I have trouble telling the difference between a bet to build a pot, a bet to probe, a bet to chase me out, etc. They always end up being "I am a crazy confused fish that just clicks bet-pot all the time" sort of bet. Seems like you get the best reads on the fish by betting at them.

Still in the future I may check this.

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tjh