44 do you call this check-raise and 3 bet?

I have 44 in the sb, CO is a little tilted after some beats earlier. UB 30/60. I discussed this hand with a good player friend of mine and he didn't like my play, I'd like to hear your comments on it.

Are all of my outs clean here? How much would you discount them? BTW, if I hit I think I can cr the turn and get someone to call me down.

Ultimate Bet 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB check-raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero ????

16 SB in the pot now.

[Jeffage]

I would fold for two cold. Don't forget it can be raised again. There is an outside chance you're against a set of aces or 5's leaving you with only the straight outs. Also, if you hit the str8 (or set if it's good), I wouldn't count on tons of action or checkraising b/c the board will be highly coordinated.

Jeff

[ike]

Lets say if you coldcall you're actually gonna be putting in 2.5sb on average (that is it gets capped behind you half the time). Lets say some always has the aces. You're still getting about 8 : 1. Holding two of the 4s I'm not that concerned about getting less than the whole pot if I hit a 3 and the board doesn't pair. Easy call. Add in the fact that its far from garaunteed that anyone has a set, and its a very easy call.

[Fillamoore]

I didnt like the flop call. I would have to throw in a raise to thin the field. Given that theres a descent chance that CO is betting at it without much of a hand you may in fact be ahead....even if you aren't ahead at this point, you may get another 4 to fold..say A4 or some other hand with a 4 in it, cleaning up your straight outs, or even getting someone with a 3 to fold cleaning up your set outs should you hit, or both! a simple check raise here could buy you easily as much as 4 outs, which, in this case isnt bad given that you may in fact be ahead anyways. As a side not, by check raising this flop, you better define your hand against the bb, if you see him call two cold you can be pretty sure your behind, if he 3 bets cold you can be positive all the while creating an easier call on your part. This is one of those situations in my opinion where its either fold or raise, but definitely no call. Good luck.

I feel pretty good about my chances for check-raising the turn if I hit. The CO is tilty angry so I think he will lead any turn if the BB doesn't cap. If the BB caps I think he (BB) will lead the turn (even when the 3 or 4 hits) because he'll think he cleaned out gutter draws.

What do you guys put the BB and CO on? Unfortunately I'm not at my home computer and can't look up their stats at the moment.

[girgy44]

[ QUOTE ]
you may get another 4 to fold..say A4

[/ QUOTE ]

A4 never folds here. Regardless of the number of bets.