SSH and Getting The Best of It Discrepancy

pipes · #1 01-01-2005, 09:29 PM

In SSH it advocates raising with AJo. But in GTBOI, on page 86 its says AJ is "garbage" in a good loose game.

So this means one of these books is incorrect and faulty. Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

tek · #2 01-01-2005, 10:10 PM

Under what conditions did each book refer to: such as position, who bet or raised, etc?

pfkaok · #3 01-01-2005, 10:38 PM

GTBOI was first written over 20 years ago, and I'm guessin the games were quite different in many ways. Maybe more aggro, so if you call or raise with AJo you'd likely be having to put 3+ bets in, which isn't good with AJo. I don't have SSHe in front of me, but I think they had a specific example in there where if you raised with AJo, and it got reraised and capped back to you, you should fold, as opposed to 88 or 99, where you call. If this is more likely to happen in your game, then AJo is certaily "garbage" as Sklansky stated. I'm sure in most of today's lowlimit games though Mr. Sklansky would find a lot of places to profitably play AJo. Especially since he collaborated on SSHE, I believe he would agree with most of what Miller wrote, at least as it pertains to the typical 3/6 or 6/12 HE you'd find today.

QuickLearner · #4 01-02-2005, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So this means one of these books is incorrect and faulty. Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'd kind of like to have you elaborate because I guess I'm too dim to see why. Perhaps you can direct me to the appropriate pages in YOUR book. I'm kind of surprised that someone with as many posts here as you have is capable of such a patently offensive statement.

gusly · #5 01-02-2005, 02:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So this means one of these books is incorrect and faulty. Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'd kind of like to have you elaborate because I guess I'm too dim to see why. Perhaps you can direct me to the appropriate pages in YOUR book. I'm kind of surprised that someone with as many posts here as you have is capable of such a patently offensive statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see how this is a "patently offensive statement." He's expressing his opinion that one of the books is incorrect. And use of the Socratic method shouldn't be offensive...

If you disagree with his opinion, why not state your reasons in a logical way, rather than just claiming that the statement is offensive?

EDIT: Just so you know, I haven't read GTBOI, but I have read SSHE, and I know that the original poster's statement oversimplifies/misrepresents Miller's recommendations...

Rudbaeck · #6 01-02-2005, 04:13 AM

While 2+2 certainly publishes the best poker books they do actually get things wrong on occasion. And it's been a long time between GTBOI and SSH, plenty of time for new insights into the game.

morgan180 · #7 01-02-2005, 04:45 AM

There are a lot of hands that are raising hands in some situations/games and garbage hands in different situations/games. Also the game has changed a lot. If you read some S/S you'll see where a 3-bet/cap always meant AA/KK. Things have definitely changed. I'd be interested to see what the situation is for the "garbage" comment before commenting further.

Michael Davis · #8 01-02-2005, 05:20 AM

GTBOI is just flat wrong.

-Michael

pipes · #9 01-02-2005, 01:21 PM

Actually I believe GTBOI is right on the money and SSH is wrong.

Just for clarification about the contexts; SSH advocates raising with AJo in any position in a loose game. Pages 82-83. There is no exact context in GTBOI, its just a single sentence on page 86. "Ace-jack becomes garbage in hold'em". Its an article about good loose games.

While, its true that there may be many hands worse than AJo among the limpers, in general though there are many hands that are getting implied odds from you. Any pocket pair, any decent suited connector etc. It just doesn't feel like a +EV play to raise with AJo on button with around 6-7 limpers. I might be folding that. Even if you spike and ace or jack, you've made the pot bigger and now you may it correct to chase with anything.

I don't think what I said was offensive at all! Not by a longshot. This is a real big discrepancy in my mind. I think an explanation is in order.

gusly · #10 01-02-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I believe GTBOI is right on the money and SSH is wrong.

Just for clarification about the contexts; SSH advocates raising with AJo in any position in a loose game. Pages 82-83.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've oversimplified the charts. SSHE advocates raising IF there has been no raise. Look more closely at the charts.

In fact, if you refer to page 73 for clarification, you'll see that the recommendation is to be prepared to fold AJ to ANY raise, because the hand is vulnerable to domination.