Better way to play this?

TexTiger · #1 06-03-2005, 09:37 AM

Hand from last night's Stars $10+1, 10 minute levels. I don't like the way I played this hand, wondering what you guys would suggest would have been a better approach.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t1640)
Hero (t1660)
Button (t2290)
SB (t1430)
BB (t1580)
UTG (t1485)
UTG+1 (t1635)
MP1 (t1440)
MP2 (t320)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, 4 folds, Hero raises to t80, Button calls t80, SB calls t70, 1 fold, UTG calls t60.

Flop: (t340) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets t200, SB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls t200.

Turn: (t740) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t300, Hero calls t300.

River: (t1340) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: t1340

Looking back over it I should have either led out on the flop, or CR'd once I got action. Better line?

What's a better way to play the turn? Lead out or raise?

Bet the river?

I hate being a calling station, but early in tourneys, especially at the low buy-ins, you'll see people playing with so much junk there's no telling what kind of range they could have.

Crispy · #2 06-03-2005, 09:45 AM

Hey im new so here is my 2 cents. He probably put you on overs, AK AQ etc, with your bet on the flop. Then when you checked the river he figured that you would fold to any bet, figuring you missed your overs. When you called, he was confused and probably hoped for free showdown after river. A bet on the river would probably get him to fold. Well thats how I see it, time to let the true prof. here take their shot at it.

4T25Q85 · #3 06-03-2005, 09:47 AM

definatly bet the flop; 1)you raised pf, 2)you have top pair, 3)you have flushdraw, 4) you have gutshot straight, 5)you have straight flush draw. As for the size of the bet and how to play past that... i dont know because im a noob, but thats why I'd bet the flop.

Kronon · #4 06-03-2005, 10:58 AM

You could hardly hope for a better flop, so bet or check-raise on the flop. Even an all-in here isnt bad, but a bit risky just in case he has a higher flush draw, an overpair or a set.

The way you played this hand, you have no idea where you stand (luckily, neither does your opponent).

Bet hard on flop, bet again on turn and if he is still around, check the river unless it hits you (at this stage, he either also missed the heart draw and will probably check, or has you beat). It gets tricky if you check the river and he moves in on you, since he could put you on AK at this stage and try to steal the pot.

TexTiger · #5 06-03-2005, 11:34 AM

I think one of my main leaks is playing hands like this too fast on the flop (i.e. TP with good draws or TP top/good kicker on a non-cooridnated board), and not getting max value out of them. Yes, I have many outs here, whether they are all good or not, I don't know, and you're right, I don't know where I stand based upon my play. However, I think the main problem wasn't betting the turn, or at least CR it, when it came in a rag, and I still had top pair (albeit weak kicker), and the myriad draws still remaining. Also, knowing that it's early in the tourney, I didn't want to make an AI move on the flop, since villain had me covered and could easily have had a higher flush draw, but more likely two overs.

TT

Jurollo · #6 06-03-2005, 11:56 AM

Wow, the first guy is talking about your bet on the flop, I didnt see you bet, I saw you call. So anyhoo here is the 'right' way to play it (by 'right' I mean the way I play it to extract the most with the least risk). Check-calling here is bad, bad, bad. While you could very well be ahead you are letting him take control of the hand after you took the lead preflop. Personally, I love the check raise here preflop for a few reasons, a)if you dont get a bettor and a blank comes of the turn you can fairly safely lead, b)if you get a bet out there you can RAISE it, check-calling this flop is damn near criminal. You have just got the best flop you can get with this hand, sans 988, or 889. After this T200 steal attempt I am reraising to T500, putting some pressure on the original bettor and saying "if I check don't F with me son!" One of 3 things can now happen... a) he folds you take it (likely), b) he calls and we move to the turn, c) he pushes.
In the case of C I may be inclined to call knowing full well that I might be a dog here to an overpair or a set, in fact, 90% of the time this happens you are a dog, or at best facing AhKh. His play preflop suggests he is not that strong though as he could be playing any 2 from position, so this screams steal to me, plus he bet T200 into a T320 pot, he wanted it and wanted it there.

Ok, so assume he stays for an extra T300, this now tells me he is on a flush draw too or got a small part of the flop, so I am trying to end this hand on any safe card that falls on the turn. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], ok... so that is about as safe as they come, I dont see him having 2 pair as he would reraise you on the flop with all the draws out there and a set is unlikely, unless it is a set of 4's that he just hit and somehow called me with on the flop. This instantly confirms to me he is on a draw or has a weak holding, likely a flush draw. The pot would be T1320 at this point, and you have T1080 left, that would be a nice addition to your stack and there are too many cards that could beat me on the river right now so I push, get rid of his odds to draw. If he calls with the draw, awesome! If he calls with an overpair you have a redraw to 9s, 8s, and hearts, which isnt horrid. But more likely he folds and you take down T1320. No river analysis needed, hand should have been done on turn either way.
~Justin

aaronbeen · #7 06-03-2005, 12:18 PM

You are a favorite vs a nut flush draw, tptk, or an overpair. You aren't a big dog to a set. To me the question is whether to try to get raised (bet 150-200) or go ahead and come out strong (300+). Hopefully more experienced mtt players can give some input on this but I like the small bet to tempt AhQh (or possibly any draw if villain is aggressive enough) to make a big raise. The strong flop lead seems worse because only a set will definitely raise you.

11t · #8 06-03-2005, 12:51 PM

I'd check raise all in on the flop and try and take down the pot there.

bruce · #9 06-03-2005, 12:53 PM

check call
check call
check check

I don't think that's a good recipe for longterm success.
Bruce

TexTiger · #10 06-03-2005, 12:57 PM

I am inclined to agree. I hardly ever make a play like this, which is why I was frustrated after the hand, results being irrelevant. I don't know what I was thinking at the time (aside from the fact my 3 year old came in my computer room trying to tear something up when this hand started, so I was a bit distracted).

TT