Iran

[twowords]

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I said it in an earlier post and I'll try to make this real clear for you. Read it slooooooooooow.

1. If Iran neither a) supports terrorists who attack Israel, nor b) develops nuclear weapons, then Iran has no justifiable fear of Israeli attack.

2. Iran has made a threat to wipe out Israel and thus is shown to be the true threat.

So the only reason left that you can have to excuse Iran developing nukes is because you think they also have a right to support terroristic attacks on Israel and should be able to defend themselves from Israeli retaliation for same.

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ACPlayer exlained the problem with this thinking very effectively just a few posts ago. Weatherman also tried to tell you. To analyze an international conflict you can't just look at it from the US perspective, but from the "bad guys" perspective as well. The Arab Middle East FEARS the US, and for many the War in Iraq confirmed their worse fears about our intentions. They DO see our alliance with Israel as western imperialism aimed at controlling the whole muslim world, its likely their most pressing fear, and for good reason given their history.

Part of this comes from propaganda demonizing the US, but mostly the moderate majority fear and hatred of us is an unfortunante byproduct of having US troops in Saudi Arabia, bombing Iraq, "starving Iraq's children", invading and occupying Iraq, and having Israel in "Arab lands" and further occupying the rightful residents of Palestine (with full US support). Without these factors, the terrorists pool of moderate muslims converts goes dry.

See how things look a little different from the "bad guys" side? An objective look at the whole situation is much different, but how can you expect an equivalent bluffTHIS in Iran to see the whole picture? He will see it close to how I've outlined above. He will see America and Israel as the bad guys, and as threats. Our policy should reflect an actual calculation of interests including analysis of the "enemy" position, as opposed to just supporting the good guys (Israel) and taking out the bad guys (Iraq, Iran, others).

Like AC said, Iran FEARS Israel and the US, and nukes are seen as a good deterrent. Iraq had no nukes and we went after Saddam, while we didn't go after North Korea becasue they had nukes. Sounds like a great incentive to get nukes from the bad guys perspective. If your a non-democracy and have nukes you get negotiations or friendly relations, if not you had better get them fast or the US is gonna attcak you. Can't you and M see how this PERCEPTION is inevitable given our policy right now?

[BluffTHIS!]

Yeah, let's look at things from the criminal's perspective. He fears the good guys who might try to punish him for the future criminal actions he wishes to commit. So naturally he wishes to arm himself with the best weapons so that he might perpetrate those criminal actions with impunity. Makes sense.

[twowords]

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Yeah, let's look at things from the criminal's perspective. He fears the good guys who might try to punish him for the future criminal actions he wishes to commit. So naturally he wishes to arm himself with the best weapons so that he might perpetrate those criminal actions with impunity. Makes sense.

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I am almost sure that you are serious in your response, in which case I wonder if you are aware that someone making fun of your position would make EXACTLY the same post sarcastically to illustrate the sheer ignorance of your position.

[BluffTHIS!]

What part of my previous post don't you get that Iran has no legitimate reason to fear Israel, being as far removed geographically as it is, unless Iran intends to go on supporting terrorists who attack Israel or to attack Israel themselves?

[theweatherman]

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What part of my previous post don't you get that Iran has no legitimate reason to fear Israel, being as far removed geographically as it is, unless Iran intends to go on supporting terrorists who attack Israel or to attack Israel themselves?

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Why do you getto decide what Iranian fears arelegitimate and what are not. They cannot repel any sort of military attack from the US or Israel without nuclear weapons. Maybe Iran is tired of being in a position where they can be [censored] with and are willing to dosomething about it. The US has no right to keep dozens of nations in fear of an invasion and Iran has every rightto have whatever technology they can develop to defend themselves

[BCPVP]

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Iran has every rightto have whatever technology they can develop to defend themselves

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And if their reason for developing nukes is not defensive?

[theweatherman]

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Iran has every rightto have whatever technology they can develop to defend themselves

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And if their reason for developing nukes is not defensive?

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Nuclear weapons are obviously a terrible weapon which the world wouldprobably be betteroff without. HOwever from a Game theory pov if one has them then everyone shoul d have tehm. The situation is far more dangerous when one power can nuke anotherwith no fear of represuccions.

Thebest idea is to create a senario where offensive nukes are a losing proposition.

[BluffTHIS!]

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Why do you getto decide what Iranian fears arelegitimate and what are not. They cannot repel any sort of military attack from the US or Israel without nuclear weapons.

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The rest of the world gets to decide because they are the aggressor, and thus in the wrong.

It logically follows from your views that you think Iran has a "right" to threaten to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth" and to support terrorism against Israel or the US. It is clear that this is your hidden agenda, for without those intentions Iran will never be subject to attack by Israel or the US.

[theweatherman]

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Why do you getto decide what Iranian fears arelegitimate and what are not. They cannot repel any sort of military attack from the US or Israel without nuclear weapons.

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The rest of the world gets to decide because they are the aggressor, and thus in the wrong.

It logically follows from your views that you think Iran has a "right" to threaten to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth" and to support terrorism against Israel or the US. It is clear that this is your hidden agenda, for without those intentions Iran will never be subject to attack by Israel or the US.

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You should review your history of the middle east. In the 1950's the US sponsered a coup d'eta against the newly democratic Iran. We reinstalled the brutal Shah and thus two decades of US sponsered totalitarianism resulted. The Ayotolla finally overthrew the US backed Shah and created the modern state of Iran.
Meanwhile the US backed state of Israel was pursuing their expansionist agenda only a few hundred miles away.

Iran has been messed with by the Us far more than you realize and has every right to fear it will be in the future.

[theweatherman]

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Yeah, let's look at things from the criminal's perspective. He fears the good guys who might try to punish him for the future criminal actions he wishes to commit. So naturally he wishes to arm himself with the best weapons so that he might perpetrate those criminal actions with impunity. Makes sense.

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Can you please describe any blanant acts of crime Iran has commitedin the past 25 years? I can't, of course this holds true for Iraq but hey, once a douche always a douche right?