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#1
11-03-2005, 09:27 PM
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A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
CO open raises. I call in the big blind with KK. I expect this player to bet the flop every time, so I like check-raising with big hands, which puts me in the same position (flop, 4SB in, his turn to act) but holding a hand that is much better concealed.
Anyways... flop: Ah Qh 2s Yuck. I check and call. I'm kind of happy I didn't 3-bet. turn: Qc Yuck. I check and wish I was not playing this hand. Then I call. River: Ts I check and ... thanks. eric 
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#3
11-04-2005, 03:47 PM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
[ QUOTE ]
in my experience a 3 bet preflop does not preclude a check raise on the flop. its one of my pet plays. [/ QUOTE ] Do you do this with hands that are not overpairs on the flop as well? Let's put it this way: a) CO will steal with a wide range. That means lots of hands are playable for me. So... b) if you are going to 3-bet your good hands, that still leaves lots of hands that are playable but not 3-bettable. so... c) you also need to 3-bet lots of weak hands to balance your strategy, if you give your opponent any credit, now... d) if you 3-bet / check-raise with big hands, you also need to take this same line with weaker hands. Do you? Also, you aren't nearly as sure that you'll get that flop bet after you 3-bet preflop. If you call and check, most players bet every time, no matter what the flop or what they hold. So you virtually always get 4 SB in by the end of the flop. If you 3-bet and check, I'd guess you get a lot more check behinds then you do if you call and check. Your line is certainly a viable option, and has merit if only because few players will have seen it or understand how to handle it well. -eric
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#4
11-04-2005, 08:00 PM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
i 3 bet any time i think my hand is on average better than the steal raisers. i check raise any flop that doesnt look like it hit me (babies), whether it did or not. i bet out at any flop that looks like it hit me (a or k hi) cause the check is just too suspicious and youll give alot of free cards to hands that would have folded.
i find this line makes my hand play easy. if you play my way you probably get to fold on the flop to a raise in this instance (cause you 3 bet and bet out on the a hi flop) or get a small pp to call you down and never take controll.
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#5
11-04-2005, 08:18 PM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
[ QUOTE ]
i 3 bet any time i think my hand is on average better than the steal raisers. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is pretty common, but to play this well, you'll need to 3-bet a lot more than just the premium hands. What are your 3-betting standards vs an unknown? [ QUOTE ] i check raise any flop that doesnt look like it hit me (babies), whether it did or not. i bet out at any flop that looks like it hit me (a or k hi) cause the check is just too suspicious and youll give alot of free cards to hands that would have folded. [/ QUOTE ] So you check-raise baby flops with KQs? It's an interesting way to play, I think it has merit, but requires you to handle lots of mediocre hands in rapidly growing pots out of position. That's tough. [ QUOTE ] i find this line makes my hand play easy. if you play my way you probably get to fold on the flop to a raise in this instance (cause you 3 bet and bet out on the a hi flop) or get a small pp to call you down and never take controll. [/ QUOTE ] I don't but much stock in this argument, particularly since Are you really just going to give up every time somebody raises an ace-high flop and you don't have an ace? ouch. autobetting an ace-high flop with KK doesn't make much sense to me either. -eric
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#6
11-05-2005, 03:32 AM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
[ QUOTE ]
Also, you aren't nearly as sure that you'll get that flop bet after you 3-bet preflop. If you call and check, most players bet every time, no matter what the flop or what they hold. So you virtually always get 4 SB in by the end of the flop. If you 3-bet and check, I'd guess you get a lot more check behinds then you do if you call and check. [/ QUOTE ] If you 3-bet and bet the flop, you'll get more $ in the pot, with the possibility of opponent raising you on flop if he hits his TP. At the end of the flop, you're in the exact same position as with the check raise, having shown strength, but with the advantage that opponent may put you on two overcards or medium pockets in a blind defense.
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#7
11-04-2005, 01:56 PM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
What's his range?
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#10
11-04-2005, 02:01 PM
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Re: A strange hand... blind defense at 15/30
[ QUOTE ]
CO open raises. I call in the big blind with KK. I expect this player to bet the flop every time, so I like check-raising with big hands, which puts me in the same position (flop, 4SB in, his turn to act) but holding a hand that is much better concealed. [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure this is generally just a change-up for you but I think that everyone online thinks everyone else is FOS and that goes up exponentially in stealish situations, so calling has about zero deception value compared to 3-betting. Otherwise I play it the same and usually check/call the river.
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