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  #1  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:33 PM
Easy E Easy E is offline
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Default A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

Andy Bloch is planning on boycotting future WPT events, over their incredibly broad permission to use images and names.

Paul Phillips, for this reason and his dislike of the final table format (blind levels), is also talking about dropping WPT events. Reportedly, Jesus F. has also pulled out of WPT participation.

I don't know if other well-known pros will also start staying away, now that the WPT doesn't have a monopoly any more.
This, along with the WSOP's TOC snafu recently, makes me question whether the pros are starting to get a bit organized (or practicing implicit collusion, if you will).

Since the poker world is a unique animal, as most of the costs are not bourne by the media entities profiting from them, I wonder where this will lead?

Fire away...
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

I'm surprised the top pros haven't unionized themselves already. The shows profit off them with no direct benefits, while the players are forced to share their tactics with the viewing audience, presumably to their detriment. The best shows sell the personalities, not the game. Poker's ratings rival those of MLB, NFL and NBA, why shouldn't the players be recieving the same benefits?

G
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

The main problem is all the WPT has to do if a bunch of people boycott is hype up some of the newcomers to the game. I don't think enough big names will stop playing the WPT to make any sort of change possible.

BUT..................

I think there has to be another group of people capable of putting on big tournaments that can compete with the WPT and is more player friendly. By more player friendly I mean lowering the juice the casino or company such as WPT gets to a number equal to or much closer to zero. I would imagine 1%-2% of the the tourney buy in is more than enough to cover the costs of putting on a tournament with a televized final table. The only reason WSOP and WPT aren't changing their ways is because and organized group hasn't come in and forced them to change with a little competition.

My solution: Start the Wal-Mart poker tour.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2005, 05:07 PM
freekobe freekobe is offline
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised the top pros haven't unionized themselves already. The shows profit off them with no direct benefits, while the players are forced to share their tactics with the viewing audience, presumably to their detriment. The best shows sell the personalities, not the game. Poker's ratings rival those of MLB, NFL and NBA, why shouldn't the players be recieving the same benefits?

G

[/ QUOTE ]

I searched pretty hard in your post to find something that was true, and I couldn't find anything.

- Poker players benefit greatly from all of the TV exposure. Internet site sponsorships wouldn't exist if TV didn't exist. Hell, you probably wouldn't have registered for this site two months ago if not for televised poker. The pros benefit from TV. Some of the prize pools are inflated. There is a lot more dead money. And they get endorsement deals they never would've gotten otherwise. I think that's a real benefit.

If by "directly," you mean they should be paid to be on TV, you fundamentally misunderstand the relationship between poker players and television.

- Poker ratings do not rival NFL ratings. Poker ratings rival the NHL and other non-relevant sports. They do not rival the top three.

Furthermore, what should the WPT give to the players? Free entries? Money? You cannot compare the WPT to MLB, NFL, or the NBA. They're incredibly different structures.

The bottom line is, and this is what 99% of the population fails to understand: tv makes poker players. poker players don't make tv.

99% of people had never heard of david williams, josh arieh, joe hachem, etc. before they were on tv. anybody could've been those guys. there are only a handful of people who are irreplaceable: brunson, ivey, lederer, negreanu, to name a few. beyond that, everyone else is just a cog in a machine.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2005, 05:49 PM
Matt Williams Matt Williams is offline
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

99% of people had never heard of david williams, josh arieh, joe hachem, etc. before they were on tv. anybody could've been those guys. there are only a handful of people who are irreplaceable: brunson, ivey, lederer, negreanu, to name a few. beyond that, everyone else is just a cog in a machine.





This is true. Anyone of us could win a bracelet with skill and a lot of luck. If we become famous, it's not because we are good poker players, it's because the media and public made us famous.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

My first reply was hastily written, and I apologise if that offended, but regardless of how the stars were made, they're stars now with all that involves and in my view should be compensated for the legitimacy they bring to the tournaments they play in.

- I wasn't suggesting the players don't benefit from the exposure. I was suggesting they aren't being compensated by WPT for their services. Apparently, some of them agree.

- I fully understand the relationship between players and WPT. The players are brands used by WPT to sell their product. My point is that I'm surprised the top talent has allowed this relationship to remain untouched.

- You're absolutely right that poker's structure is different from that of the big organized team sports, but if you think the viewer doesn't care if a Jesus Ferguson stands by a product, you're sorely mistaken. As with organized athletics, the viewer at home wants to see the best at what they do doing what they do. Or have you been watching the CFL, state golf championships and B-movies exclusively because talent is irrelevent?

- "The bottom line is, and this is what 99% of the population fails to understand: tv makes poker players. poker players don't make tv."

Actually, you're wrong. The poker community was well-established when TV came calling and TV focused on them in part because they had great stories to tell. Most of the public will choose to watch a WPT or WSOP broadcast over other shows because they feature the best and brightest in the game, and the familliarity with those characters makes them easier to relate to. If nothing else, this is a chicken-egg relationship.

- While there's definately more dead money, I'm pretty sure the median calibre of major fields has increased as a whole from pre-WPT days.

- My understanding is that poker's ratings have far surpassed hockey's and now rival the big three. This can be accounted for by the popularity of re-runs. Initial airings are not level with the big three.

That all said, this was an innocent message board post, and you took it far too personally. Instead of attacking the newb, try de-caf.

Gary
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:50 PM
Matt Williams Matt Williams is offline
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

[ QUOTE ]
That all said, this was an innocent message board post, and you took it far too personally. Instead of attacking the newb, try de-caf.

Gary

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? When did I attack anyone? All I said was I agreed that TV makes poker players famous.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

sorry Matt, I was referring to freekobe's post
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2005, 07:03 PM
Matt Williams Matt Williams is offline
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

[ QUOTE ]
sorry Matt, I was referring to freekobe's post

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh OK. I liked your post up until the last paragraph and then was like "WTF?" LOL.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2005, 07:49 PM
freekobe freekobe is offline
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Default Re: A \"boycott\" of WPT events forming down the road?

I don't really understand how you say TV focused in on the established poker community....Erick Lindgren, Daniel Negreanu, Gus Hansen....those were established guys?

I don't think they were.

Take Barry Greenstein. No one would've known anything about him until he played a WPT event. He's one of the best players in the world. People knew Hoyt Corkins before they knew Greenstein.

If we're putting players in leagues, and not to pick on Hoyt bc he's a great player, but I think we know which one of those players is the NFL and which one is the CFL.

You're right that the absolute elite players did not need TV, but those are few and far between.

I don't think you can question who needs whom more.

As to the OP:

I don't think these players will boycott. They don't have as much power as they think. I do not believe the WPT or ESPN or any other network particularly cares if 50 Andy Blochs boycott an event.

The only person who could move the needle on something like this is Doyle Brunson. You need him in your event. After that, the parts are pretty interchangeable.

That is NOT true in the NFL, NBA, or any other big sports league. Those are athletes. They're performance has very little to do with luck. Daniel Negreanu may be a superstar in the poker world, but guess what? He hasn't done very much this yr in the way of final tables. Kobe Bryant will score 30 points when he feels like it. There's a big difference between the two.

And my apologies if I was rude or condescending.
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