109: AK flop play - Page 2

Irieguy · #11 10-24-2005, 02:01 AM

Yeah, it sucks... but folding here is wrong.

Pushing is what you do if you are good enough to recognize that folding is wrong, but not good enough to avoid making calling wrong by misplaying the rest of the hand.

So I would call here and do my best to play the rest of the hand really well.

Irieguy

Bonafone · #12 10-24-2005, 02:01 AM

So what's your plan from here on out. Call down or push?

Deuce2High · #13 10-24-2005, 02:04 AM

I go all in and don't think twice.

Ogre · #14 10-24-2005, 02:08 AM

i get myself all in because i dont think the bb bets out with a hand that beats me

Bonafone · #15 10-24-2005, 02:10 AM

Well it appears PPisgreedy may be right, I'm way to weak-tight.

Michael C. · #16 10-24-2005, 02:16 AM

I would push here myself. Unless I know that bb is a good player who bets with very strong hands, I'll take my chances. I think his most likely holding is a weaker ace. I think he'd check raise with two pair or a set, barring a stronger read on him. If the third player has me beat, so be it. I also think it's possible bb calls my push with something like AJ as well. There are a lot more bad 109 players that a lot of you probably realize.

ChrisV · #17 10-24-2005, 02:34 AM

I generally like to back myself postflop, but this is a situation where you're just not going to have enough room or information to make a decision.

Suppose you call and MP2 calls. On the turn:

(1) BB bets out allin. Are you calling?
(2) BB checks. Are you pushing?
(3) If you check in (2), MP2 bets allin. BB folds. Calling?

I don't think the above questions are answerable.

At the risk of sounding like Hellmuth, I think I'd rather back myself to play the rest of the tourney with 900 chips than toss my stack in here and hope for the best. The cardinal f#@king rule for me in SNGs is never stack off with no outs. That said, I don't really have any quarrel with pushing or calling. If I was splitting the tournament with someone who desperately wanted to do one of those two, I'd go along with it.

PS: I think it's most likely that BB isn't beating you. However, I wouldnt write the idea off. It is quite player dependent. If you're facing me in the BB here, you are 100% looking at either 99, QQ or AK (and the first two are more likely as I may play the AK differently).

Blarg · #18 10-24-2005, 02:37 AM

I agree. My first thought was that BB had a weaker ace and wanted to throttle the betting by betting less than the pot, and hopefully chase one or both players out.

If he had a really good hand, this sort of stop and go bet wouldn't be necessary. He could let either hero or MP2 bet the hand for him, and build it up, instead of taking a chance of either losing all further money that could be put into the pot by betting out unnecessarily, or at least cutting back any possible betting to a minimum, including a push into him which could be great if he's REALLY got the goods.

An ace on the flop in a three way hand where there was a raise and re-raise will almost certainly draw a bet from either BB or MP2 whether they have an ace or not. Especially if MP2 raises preflop and doesn't get raised back, he knows he either has the best cards, or that if he doesn't pretend he does on an ace flop after two people check to him, they're going to know the jig is up and that he doesn't have an ace. At that point, they may put him on something like a pair of jacks, and know not only that any held ace beats him, but that even a pure bluff is very likely to make him fold if the turn is a blank. So MP2 is almost obligated to bet the flop or face folding on the turn to any bettor.

This bet out from BB just does not strike me as evidence of strength, but as an attempt to shut down the betting so nobody bets or bluffs big on that ace, and to maybe even snatch the pot outright for cheap whether he's already beaten or not. I would often expect BB to turn over a medium ace, as many people are blind happy and would love to call such a small raise if they were already in the blind.

freemoney · #19 10-24-2005, 02:45 AM

the only interesting part of this hand is MP2 behind you, otherwise its very boring and very standard

kyro · #20 10-24-2005, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the only interesting part of this hand is MP2 behind you, otherwise its very boring and very standard

[/ QUOTE ]

So far you haven't said anything remotely useful. Just thought I'd let you know.

<font color="white">Here, I'll help you out. Why do you feel that MP being in the hand makes the hand interesting? </font>