Could I have gone broke differently?

feelixthegreek · #1 05-19-2005, 10:38 AM

I went out early in the $200 tournament at Harrah's yesterday, and of course I'm left wondering where I went wrong. Which brings me here.

I've got T1025 and the the blinds are 25-50. Folded to me in MP1, and with TT I make it 150. Player on my immediate left, who was a few hundred more than me, calls. Folded around.

Pot is 375. Flop is 863, two hearts. First to act, I make it 250 and get flat called. (Should alarm bells have gone off here?)

Pot is 875, turn brings a 4, not a heart. I've got 625. I bet 325 and get called again. (In retrospect since I was committing myself I should have pushed.)

River is a Q. I throw in my last 300 and get called by JJ.

My intial feeling was that he played the hand as badly as I did, since he was willing to call off his chips not knowing where he stood. But I wonder if I was simply too aggressive with TT so early in the tournament. Or was I too passive? Or the perfect combination of both?

nightlyraver · #2 05-19-2005, 11:40 AM

Many players over-play the tens. It really depends on who you ask, but a fair number of experts advocate for a limp or an occasional raise w/ TT early in a tourney. You're acting out of position if you get called and more likely than not at least one overcard flops. That did not happen here - you got almost the perfect flop. The fact is, that does not make your hand invincable. Unless this player is passive or foolish, the only possible hand he could have is a bigger pocket pair than yours. Think about it: Say he's smooth calling pre-flop with AA-77, AK and AQ. Only an idiot would flat call on the flop w/ AK or AQ. If he has A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you would have to be very passive to simply flat call in this spot since it looks like the flop missed you and you're simply taking a shot at it. Besides, 2 OC's and a draw to the nuts makes him the favorite on the flop over QQ-99. Moreover, if he had 77 or 99, he surely would have raised. Frankly, I'm surprised that he flat called with JJ in this spot - I certainly would have raised with JJ or QQ since they are vulnerable. Therefore, the only hands that I would put a flat caller on in this spot are AA,KK,88, which all beat you by far. Here had JJ - still beats you but it's not far off from my analysis. Once he flat calls on the flop, alarm bells DEFINATELY are going off in my head and I'm quite certainly shutting down at this point. In fact, I would check and fold to ANY bet on 4th or 5th street.

Lloyd · #3 05-19-2005, 12:02 PM

Pre-flop raise looks good but you've got to wonder what the caller has. You don't have enough chips for him to be playing for set value so if he's a decent player he probably doesn't have a small pair. Pre-flop I'd put him on AA-TT, AK-AQ (in the future leave out the results and what your opponent has to make the analysis mean more).

Leading out on the flop is important to define your hand. When he smooth calls I'd be concerned I'm up against a big pair. The only hand you're not way behind is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and you'd think he'd raise with this. You could probably get away with betting a little less on the flop to save chips if he comes over the top and you decide to lay down the hand.

I think I'd check the turn and see what he does. If he bets, I'm likely to fold giving him credit for a big hand. If he checks, I'm getting pretty confused and maybe he is on a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw. If that's the case I'd check the river and fold if a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls and call otherwise (inducing a bluff of a missed draw). In any event, once he calls my flop bet I'm going to slow down.

schwza · #4 05-19-2005, 12:13 PM

just push the turn. you don't want a flush draw to save chips on the river if he misses.

feelixthegreek · #5 05-19-2005, 12:58 PM

Sorry about giving the results away. I probably should have titled it differently, too.

adanthar · #6 05-19-2005, 01:00 PM

He's got no read on him. It's a $200 live tourney, and he called PF and then called again on the flop.

At this point, the range of hands I put this guy on potentially includes 52o. You need a much better read to give him aces-tens.

nightlyraver · #7 05-19-2005, 01:06 PM

52o??

I don't get it - please explain why you would have such a hug range of hands for this player...

There is nothing in the OP to indicate this player is so loose and passive. I would usually err on the side of caustion if I have no reads (OP doesn't even say that) unless I have good reason to think otherwise.

schwza · #8 05-19-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's got no read on him. It's a $200 live tourney, and he called PF and then called again on the flop.

At this point, the range of hands I put this guy on potentially includes 52o. You need a much better read to give him aces-tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

and so your action is....

adanthar · #9 05-19-2005, 01:22 PM

I think it's an easy push on the turn. 52o is funny but Axs is not, y'know?

You can't check, BTW. What do you do if he pushes or makes what looks like a value bet? I hate folding and I certainly hate calling so that leaves a push.

Arnett23 · #10 05-19-2005, 01:57 PM

Just because it is a $200 live tourney means little. The play is about the same as your avg 5 or 10 dollar tourney on stars. I was in a 200 tourney last night and a guy in the small blind called my 4x the bb utg raise with 73. So he could definately have any 2.