Very mad about this hand. - Page 2

RollingRockMike · #11 05-01-2005, 06:32 AM

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Hi, this is my first ever post so please critique my format as well as my play. I didnt have any reads because i was multitasking at work

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

I think my pre flop limp is ok, but let me know otherwise

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds.

Oh boy! What could possibly go wrong?

River: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Is this an easy river fold? I would have called it if it would have been a heads up showdown considering the size of the pot.

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Yeah the river sucks, but you played it the same I woulda.

Mike

chesspain · #12 05-01-2005, 08:35 AM

Daruff, welcome to the forums!

Some people would raise PF with 98s after three limpers, although there is certainly nothing wrong with calling. Of course, folding would be bad.

Flop and turn are standard. Obvoiusly, the river card sucks, although you're getting 12:1 to make the crying call. If you would call this HU then you should probably call here, since I think that the presence of UTG+2 is a non-issue. In fact, he looks like he could have just been calling along the entire way hoping that his Ax (little kicker) is good.

In the long term scheme of things, I don't think it is going to make much of difference if you fold or call this river.

SA125 · #13 05-01-2005, 11:37 AM

Welcome. Button could be taking a shot at the pot and I would've called if UTG didn't. As you've led the flop and turn, you're probably toast and like betting the river more than overcalling.

Liam Carver · #14 05-01-2005, 11:44 AM

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In the long term scheme of things, I don't think it is going to make much of difference if you fold or call this river.

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I disagree completely.

1) Plays that don't affect your longterm results are not river plays where a decent pot is at stake for one BB, they are marginal pre-flop calls with a hand some people play and others don't, like J9o.

2) This is a case where in the longterm, If every time you are getting 12-1 odds to make a call on the river with two pair - a scare card comes and you assume you are now second best to a guy who has been weakly calling along against two bettors with only a queen - and there is an ace on the board - this smells a little weak tight. Paranoid thinking will affect your results in the longterm. Are you ~92.5% sure this guy has a Queen? Wow. Do Not fold a 12BB pot when someone wakes up on the river but has been limping along with what looks like Ax or possibly drawing.

3) IMO more often than 7.5% People will bluff at you in this situation, with a scare card when you are representing a decent hand and a 2nd Q falls.

4) If this guy did have Qx, he has not been getting proper odds to continue and wait for this 2nd queen? He also couldn't assume that his other outs are good against two other opponents and an ace on the board.

5) I always notice when some guy has been leading all the way, representing the best hand as you were, then folds to a scare card on the river. Obviously there are uncommon situations where you should fold two pair for one bet on the river, but people will notice if you are (longterm + short term) folding in this situation...this is a red flag for every aggressive player out there and you could be inviting bluff raises or just general shots at you on the river, especially in the longterm if these are your habits.

6) Last but not least - is there any way you could have protected your hand more while getting more info about other people's hands? Is a turn CR a possibility here? I am pretty sure the thought would have crossed my mind. I am not sure if I would have tried it or not...

Liam

Entity · #15 05-01-2005, 01:12 PM

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3) IMO more often than 7.5% People will bluff at you in this situation, with a scare card when you are representing a decent hand and a 2nd Q falls.

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Yeah, but how many people bluff-call with a hand that you're beating?

evilganz · #16 05-01-2005, 01:15 PM

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2) This is a case where in the longterm, If every time you are getting 12-1 odds to make a call on the river with two pair - a scare card comes and you assume you are now second best to a guy who has been weakly calling along against two bettors with only a queen - and there is an ace on the board - this smells a little weak tight. Paranoid thinking will affect your results in the longterm. Are you ~92.5% sure this guy has a Queen? Wow. Do Not fold a 12BB pot when someone wakes up on the river but has been limping along with what looks like Ax or possibly drawing.

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Read the board again. Your two pair just got counterfeited by any ace, and there was a caller on the river in front of you. What can you possibly beat?

chesspain · #17 05-01-2005, 01:19 PM

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Read the board again. Your two pair just got counterfeited by any ace...

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Ugh...I can't believe I missed that. Maybe I should wait until my morning coffee hits the bloodstream before I respond to posts.

chesspain · #18 05-01-2005, 01:22 PM

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In fact, he looks like he could have just been calling along the entire way hoping that his Ax (little kicker) is good.

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Since I just realized that our two-pair is now behind any ace, I'm going to change my vote on the river action from "it doesn't matter" to "probable fold."

Chris Dow · #19 05-01-2005, 01:22 PM

Are you kidding about the river fold? Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

Fnord · #20 05-01-2005, 01:24 PM

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Are you kidding about the river fold? Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

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This is getting old and your punk ass is the first person ever on my ignore list. Given that Matador didn't make it, it's quite an honor.

Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.