loose call on button yields a 11 out nust str8 draw + lousy flush draw

#1 10-19-2005, 08:12 PM

Does anyone fold this after the re-re-raise and an all-in?

No real reads, players are typical PokerStars $25 PLO players (i.e. neither geniuses nor newbies used to HE), fairly loose preflop (like I was here) and they understand what a strong draw is.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.25 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|Main Players

CO ($21.80)
Hero ($44.55)
SB ($39.55)
BB ($7.40)
UTG ($25.70)
UTG+1 ($23.90)
MP1 ($24.95)
MP2 ($17.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.5, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets $1, BB calls $1, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $1, Hero raises to $7.4, SB raises to $26.6, BB calls $5.90 (All-In), MP2 folds,

SB has $12.45 left
Main pot is 24.20
Total pot is 42.45

Hero?

joewatch · #2 10-19-2005, 10:40 PM

You're probably a dog here, but enough for a call I think.

hockeyf · #3 10-19-2005, 10:42 PM

Take the cheap card on the flop.

Tilt · #4 10-20-2005, 11:55 AM

I think raising that flop is a big mistake. You are wasting the value of position. Take the card, if you hit you can milk them dry. If the board pairs and the action gets heavy in front of you, you can get out cheap.

boscoboy · #5 10-20-2005, 02:05 PM

you certainly put yourself in a tight spot here - but i'm sure you already know that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

i think a call is in order - 12 outs to the tiny straight and a big maybe that SB is not on the flush draw and BB is, giving you the club outs to the much larger side pot

waiting to see the turn cheaply is the move here

#6 10-20-2005, 03:16 PM

At the time, I was virtually 100% certain that SB had JJxx. Since the Jc was on the board this would leave him with 2 side cards that had to both be clubs. The odds of this are about 1 in 25. I also must admit that I barely noticed the BB. My thinking was "wrap flush vs. top set = push". I pushed and he called. I now realize the final push was pointless since he would call any turn card and I had plenty of pot odds for any non-pair turn.

Since opinion seems to be universal, I think I'll re-evaluate how I play mini flush wraps.

#7 10-20-2005, 03:41 PM

OK, since opinion is that I should have called (better the $1 than the $26) let's consider the Turn card:

T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

First, the call the re-re-raise scenario:

SB goes all-in (12.45)

I assume this is an obvious call with 6 to 1 pot odds.

Second, the scenario where I call the $1 flop bet:

SB bets pot : 6.40
BB calls all-in
MP2 (1) all-in (2) folds or (3) calls
Hero? (in each case)

My thinking:
(1) I must fold

(2) my club draws are prob dead and my heart straights might be dead too. Furthermore, an A might give someone a broadway straight. Suddenly, I have only 5 nut draws. But I'm getting nearly 3 to 1 odds. Still, at best I have 11 straight outs so I should probably fold.

(3) I think I must fold since my chances are significantly worse and the pot odds aren't much better.

joewatch · #8 10-20-2005, 04:15 PM

Yes, calling in both cases.