What was Phil Ivey thinking?

[Smoothcall]

No he said i think i got you and called. Phil had 95 off bellande A10 off. Not sure if he said you knew it was an auto call but if that was the case it only makes Phil's play worse.

[RowdyZ]

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WSOP circuit that was on tonight. I didn't see the beginning but the first hand i see is Phil Ivey moving in from what appeared to be the button with 95 off and very little chips against the chip leader's bb who is loose as a goose Bellande. Did i miss somthing? I really must have as i never seen Phil make a total donkey play until this. So maybe i saw it wrong? What actually happened?

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Did you miss something? considering your track record you probably missed alot. For one you got the details of the hand wrong, the guy limped in, wasn't on the BB. Something he had been doing alot. Ivey knew this and as you said was low on chips on the button so he decided to try and pick up some chips, it didn't work but it often does because the EP limper is trying to see a cheap flop with rags but doesn't want to gamble for alot of chips with the hand.

RZ

[Smoothcall]

Yes that is exactly the argument i am making. No matter what Ivey's stack is i feel it was incorrect to make the play. Sure depending on his stack size will lean it one way or the other of how incorrect it was but nonetheless incorrect.

I'm sure Ivey thought he picked up o somthing but the play just doesn't seem worth it here. And his read was wrong twice. First he read bellande as weak(which A10 short handed isn't that weak, its infact strong) second he assumed he could get him off the hand.

Yes. i have seen your name before but not enough to know if you are afraid to criticize pros if they make what you see to be a mistake. I think you flamed me more than once during those heated times a few months back if i remember correctly? I could be wrong but i think i remember that. No worries it was the past. And i think you made some good points and look forward to reading your replies in the future.

[AngryCola]

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Not sure if he said you knew it was an auto call but if that was the case it only makes Phil's play worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop mixing up the hands.
He said that right before he folded to Ivey's pocket fives.
It was amusing. Don't you remember that hand? I believe it was one of the reasons Ivey tried to bluff later on, yet you're here trying to debate the merits of Ivey's play in a later hand when you can't even remember the relevant previous hands shown in the broadcast.

EDIT-
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You have to look at the facts and situation and make a judement for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have nearly enough 'facts' to make a solid judgement.
None of us do.

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No matter what Ivey's stack is i feel it was incorrect to make the play.

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You just lost me. That makes very little sense.

[Smoothcall]

Yes i know what his thinking was and all that. I just don't agree with it. Its not the time to try this play imo. Why does he have to be right? You assume it was right without any hesitation because Phil I did it. You have to look at the facts and situation and make a judement for yourself. Granted Phil I is probably a great player but it doesn't mean he can't make mistakes like any other human being does it?

I wasn't knocking curtains. I was genuinely saying i haven't read many of his posts to know whether he is capable of criticizing a pro or was azombie that just walks in line with the other zombies with there arms out saying "the play was correct because phil I did it." And i'm not saying you are one of these zombies. Just saying i didn't know if he was at the time.

[Smoothcall]

Considering my track record? What is my track record exactly? And what is your btw?

[Smoothcall]

I didn't mix up the hands the other guy did. I didnt say he said that. I said if he said that it makes it worse. I didn't see the other and you are referring to.

I believe i have enough info for my conclusion. The reason i say it doesn't matter what size Phil I's stack size is because no matter big, small, or medium his stack is i feel it is incorrect to make a wreckless play like this. The risk vs. reward is more your risking for less reward. Anotherwords if Phil has big stack he will get away with this play somewhat often by moving in. But he only stands to gain the limpers sb and the blinds while risking all of his chips assuming bellende or the blinds(one of the 3) have more chips than him. If he has a medium stack the same thing. If he has a small stack the same except it will work MUCH less often as people won't fear calling Phil I's short stack move in as much as his move in as a big stack because he can't hurt them. But you see in all these situations no matter what his stack size is none are worth risking going broke with a 95 off to win a small pot. Does it make a little more sense now?

[AngryCola]

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I believe i have enough info for my conclusion.

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How? You couldn't even remember the laydown the guy made when Ivey had pocket 5s. This INSTANTLY means you don't have enough information, because it is extremely relevant to the hand in question.

Even if you had known that, you still wouldn't have enough information because of the reasons I previously mentioned.

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Does it make a little more sense now?

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No, your original statement still makes no sense.

EOMs

[DonkeyChip]

I got the hands mixed up, sorry about that. I'll have a better recollection after I've watched the reruns 50x. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

That was the hand where Bellande said there were 2 people at the table he wouldn't be able to get a read on, Phil and Jennifer. So he said he had to go by 'feel' and that he felt he had the best hand. Correct?

People make mistakes and this very well may have been one but when it's from a player of Phil's caliber, I instead try to figure out 'why' he made the play he did. And due to the editing, I often may never know. Sometimes plays taken out-of-context seem strange to put it kindly but when you know more details, they don't seem so strange. Both Harrington and Raymer have provided details/perspectives on 2003 and 2004 WSOP final table hands that seemed strange when viewed for the first time but aren't so far-fetched once you hear their perspective.

[jojobinks]

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I didn't say it was a donkey play. I said did i mioss something because it looks like a donkey play.

[/ QUOTE ]

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I really must have as i never seen Phil make a total donkey play until this.

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