What was Phil Ivey thinking? - Page 2

Smoothcall · #11 07-20-2005, 06:32 AM

I agree we don't get to see all the action and i'm sure there instances that brought this on as you said. And i don't think Phil I is a donkey. I still think i would be saying this even if we saw all the footage as even when i look at what might have happend before the bottom line is still the same. You don't have many chips. My opponent is loose and willing to gamble(i can't believe you not sure of this by the way he played throughout this tourney) and has already entered the pot. Sure if we saw all the hands and put everything together it would look closer. But i doubt enough to lean me here. But i understand your point and its valid.

AngryCola · #12 07-20-2005, 06:37 AM

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My opponent is loose and willing to gamble(i can't believe you not sure of this by the way he played throughout this tourney)

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He didn't play the same way against every player, but I digress. Ultimately he did call Ivey with ATo (right?) after an open-limp, so I can't really argue with you too much. It's just my opinion, and I'm never surprised when I'm wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Smoothcall · #13 07-20-2005, 06:45 AM

I don't know either but by the looks of it he was by far the short stack left in the table. And Bellende had enough to call the bet and still have tons of chips.

Why wouldn't you DARE question unless you were sure of his exact chip count? Again this is what i have a problem with. They treat these guys like there the queen of england and i'm calling her a fat cow to her face if i dare question a hand they played. I better be right or i'm in trouble with big daddy Phil I.

Morpheus · #14 07-20-2005, 07:06 AM

Bellande was constantly raising with garbage and then folding to re-raises. For whatever reason, Phil put him on some more garbage and decided to steal it. He had stolen one earlier but I was kind of shocked that he did that again since he had to know that Bellande would eventually call.

curtains · #15 07-20-2005, 07:16 AM

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I don't know either but by the looks of it he was by far the short stack left in the table. And Bellende had enough to call the bet and still have tons of chips.

Why wouldn't you DARE question unless you were sure of his exact chip count? Again this is what i have a problem with. They treat these guys like there the queen of england and i'm calling her a fat cow to her face if i dare question a hand they played. I better be right or i'm in trouble with big daddy Phil I.

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I wouldnt dare question any play made by anyone unless I know all the details involved. I think this it's a sign of a good player that they want to know every detail before making a judgement one way or another.

If you think I'm worried about criticizing the play of someone just because they are a "poker superstar" then you are either deluded or haven't read many of my posts.

Smoothcall · #16 07-20-2005, 07:52 AM

Well we will never have all the information because of the editing so we have to work with what they give us. Otherwise we can't post on any hand ever dealt on TV because we haven't seen every single hand played correct?

I haven't read many of your posts.

DonkeyChip · #17 07-20-2005, 07:56 AM

I think that's the hand where Bellande (after doing the quick math involved) says something like; "You knew it was an auto-call, yet you pushed anyway. I think I'm beat."

Wasn't Bellande getting almost 2:1 (or maybe it was 2.5:1)?

I'm not saying it was a great move by Ivey, just adding what I 'think' Bellande said before he folded. If I'm thinking of the same hand that is.

curtains · #18 07-20-2005, 07:58 AM

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Well we will never have all the information because of the editing so we have to work with what they give us. Otherwise we can't post on any hand ever dealt on TV because we haven't seen every single hand played correct?

I haven't read many of your posts.

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The WPT gives much better information and it's actually possible to determine stack sizes, bet amounts and etc and thus draw much more accurate conclusions than from watching WSOP broadcasts.

In this case it's very difficult to directly criticize the play or go into too much detail, as we have no idea whether Ivey had 5x the BB, 8x the BB, 10x,15x etc etc. One could make a case that no matter how many chips he had, it would be incorrect to make the play he did.

However please trust me that people make moves like this and get away with them, yet aren't shown on TV because they don't want to show a preflop blind steal but instead they want to show someone bust.

I think Ivey read him correctly that he had a weak/mediocre hand (Something about the way he was talking would be really strange if he had a strong hand), but simply misjudged whether or not he had enough chips to make him fold, not that we know how many chips he had.

Also I post almost solely in the 1 table tournament forum, so that probably explains why you haven't seen any posts from me. Every now and then I get sucked into this forum...

AngryCola · #19 07-20-2005, 08:06 AM

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I think that's the hand where Bellande (after doing the quick math involved) says something like; "You knew it was an auto-call, yet you pushed anyway. I think I'm beat."

Wasn't Bellande getting almost 2:1 (or maybe it was 2.5:1)?

I'm not saying it was a great move by Ivey, just adding what I 'think' Bellande said before he folded. If I'm thinking of the same hand that is.

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No, that happened earlier at the table when Ivey was holding pocket 5s.

johnnybeef · #20 07-20-2005, 08:16 AM

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Well we will never have all the information because of the editing so we have to work with what they give us. Otherwise we can't post on any hand ever dealt on TV because we haven't seen every single hand played correct?

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In order to be a successful tournament player, one must steal blinds and make moves at pots from time to time. You happened to see Phil make a move and get busted. From what I saw of JR, he tended to raise everytime he was in lp. This hand he limped which of course is usually a sign that you want to see a cheap flop. Ivey was short stacked, saw a lot of dead money in the pot and made a move. This is a move that is in any good tournament players arsenal.

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I haven't read many of your posts.

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Curtains is one of the most knowledgable posters in the STT forum. You would do well to look him up some time.