Did I play my OESD correctly?

marchron · #1 06-03-2005, 05:00 PM

Very loose-passive table.

Advice on all streets, please.

.25/.50, 9-handed, MP1 posts .25

Preflop: marchron is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 checks, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BT calls, marchron completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players)
marchron checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, BT calls, marchron calls, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (10.5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
marchron checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, BT folds, marchron calls, BB calls, MP1 folds.

River: (14.5 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
marchron checks, BB checks, MP3 bets, marchron raises, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Delphin · #2 06-03-2005, 05:10 PM

I'd three bet the flop. You'll get enough callers to make it +EV, and the rainbow flop means you probably won't have to worry about being beat by a flush.

The rest looks perfect.

SoCalPat · #3 06-03-2005, 05:16 PM

You're fine PF with this many limpers. Getting 14-1, it's a no-brainer.

I might be inclined to check-raise/3-bet the flop. You've got two who cold-called MP3's raise, as well as a bettor and two callers. You might get yourself a free card. But with so many players putting money in, and you're less than 5-1 to improve to the nuts on the turn, and less than 2.5-1 by the river, it's definitely worth getting in extra money now.

The only downside is you might chase out players who have paired their A-rag kicker ... you'd love to see them stick around when they hit their two pair and you have your straight. But that's a minimal consideration.

Turn is fine. You want to see the river cheaply.

If I don't C/R the flop, I bet out on the river. For a flop raiser and turn bettor, that river is looking pretty blanky. You'll likely get an overcall from the BB (he did lead out on the flop into a huge field, so he's got to have something) and you might even get raised by MP3, where then you can make it 3 bets.

With only two others left, the aggressor being last to act, it would be a disaster if it was checked around. And by going for the C/R, you'll likely only get the same two bets that you would've had you bet out, but the possibility is there that you could collect more.

You didn't leave a ton of money on the table, but I think you could've made more off the hand, especially given the number of players who saw the flop.

dozer · #4 06-03-2005, 05:17 PM

everything looks fine.
I would bet the river though. BB and MP3 will most likely call one more bet and you don't risk having the river checked through.

@bsolute_luck · #5 06-03-2005, 05:35 PM

why are people suggesting to c/r and 3-bet this flop? i'm confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] BB bets and MP3 raises- you already have all the value you'll need on this hand IMO, your position sux, you can't win if you pair your hand so you're not buying any outs, and at this point, you have nothing.

i'm also confused by the converter. did you mess with it or did MP3 raise and not call? because it says he raised and your small bet count equals the amount if he raised.

i would probably fold preflop if he did raise, but i'll wait to see what other say as the pot will be big. the rest of the hand seems fine IMO.

PuckNPoker · #6 06-03-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why are people suggesting to c/r and 3-bet this flop? i'm confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He has 8 outs to the nuts on the flop, he will win this with his OESD about 31% of the time. So he has 31% equity, if he bets and 3 or more people call he is making money off of each one of those bets going into the pot. Ideally to maximize his value he'd want to get the flop capped with all those people in. He lost a lot of value not check raising here.

dozer · #7 06-03-2005, 06:04 PM

i think calling is better too, if you 3-bet you might knock out BB and Mp1.By calling here you are putting in 2:19 without the risking of knocking out any players.
3-betting assuming everyone just calls your 3-bet you are putting in 3:24 and if BB and MP1 both fold you are putting in 3:20.

macdaddy991 · #8 06-03-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think calling is better too, if you 3-bet you might knock out BB and Mp1.By calling here you are putting in 2:19 without the risking of knocking out any players.
3-betting assuming everyone just calls your 3-bet you are putting in 3:24 and if BB and MP1 both fold you are putting in 3:20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, 3 betting this flop if you everyone would call would have some merit, but calling should guarantee you more bets.

PuckNPoker · #9 06-03-2005, 06:20 PM

BB bet out, you are worried about MP1 and MP2 folding, BB is in for the turn I bet (and he may even cap it).

MP3,CO,BT all are in for 2, they will come along for 1 more.

(im ignoring the bets in the pot below)
The way he played it: 2:12 (best case, it was 2:11 actually)
3 bet best case: 3:18 (probably more realistic, 3:15)
Cap Best case scenario: 4:24

Now the 3 bet may kill your action later if you hit. The 3 bet scenario is higher variance but it looks to me like it will make more money over the long run.

Thoughts?

dozer · #10 06-03-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB bet out, you are worried about MP1 and MP2 folding, BB is in for the turn I bet (and he may even cap it).

MP3,CO,BT all are in for 2, they will come along for 1 more.

(im ignoring the bets in the pot below)
The way he played it: 2:12 (best case, it was 2:11 actually)
3 bet best case: 3:18 (probably more realistic, 3:15)
Cap Best case scenario: 4:24

Now the 3 bet may kill your action later if you hit. The 3 bet scenario is higher variance but it looks to me like it will make more money over the long run.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly why I think calling is better. Calling has the almost the same result as 3-betting, except by 3-betting you might knock players out. If BB really like his hand, he may 3-bet it for you then you can cap if you want to.

If BB 3-bets and you hit your draw on the turn, then it is a perfect time to checkraise the whole field. If BB doesn't 3-bet the flop you can lead the turn instead if the draw hits. It is close IMO, I just prefer calling more than 3-betting for the above reasons thats all.