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#22
11-24-2005, 10:28 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
nice analogy!
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#23
11-24-2005, 10:29 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
A computer programmer has no trouble interacting with a computer simulation despite existing outside it, so why should it be a problem for god? chez [/ QUOTE ] i dunno...does the computer have free will? joking aside, the dimension thing seems to clear this issue up for me.
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#24
11-25-2005, 02:10 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Hypermegachi, Read "Flatland". It would be no problem for a being who existed in a spatial 4th dimension (outside our 3 diminsions) to talk to us to pop into our locked rooms to disappear just as easily and all sorts of other amazing things. [/ QUOTE ] In your example the 3d world world would, in fact, be part of the 4 spatial dimensional world but the 3d aware beings simply wouldn't be aware of the fact. The purported 4th dimensional being then _would_ be in the space and time of the 3D only aware beings and so not satisfy the criterion of the [oster that the being is outside their space and time..
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#25
11-29-2005, 12:03 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
A computer programmer has no trouble interacting with a computer simulation despite existing outside it, so why should it be a problem for god? chez [/ QUOTE ] This is an moronic response. The computer and the computer programmer exist in the same dimensions.
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#26
11-29-2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
Why everybody here is so obsessed with this god? Does he exist, does he not exist, in time, out of time, blah blah blah. Seriously, I just don't get it. Forget about this god already, trust me, it will all be good. Just stop thinking about it! Nothing will change. [/ QUOTE ] Not true, people are killing each and have been for thousands of years out of religious justifications. (I know war isn't simple, but the cannon fodder is rallied by the cry of god.) The entire middle portion of our country is becoming a religious dark land. Needs to be stopped. I think these threads are a great way to start.
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#27
11-29-2005, 12:12 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
God does not exist in time. That is, He does not experience the passage of time as we do, nor is he limited by time's arrow. For Him, it is one great eternal "now". Likewise, since He created space, He is not limited by it and both exists "outside" space and also permeates space. And when God wishes someone to hear His voice, He does not need sound at all but can speak to their minds. And even if He chooses to use sound, then the sound of His voice need not travel from another point but can be created at the point of the one hearing, so that there is no travelling of sound waves from somewhere else, but only from the point at which His voice is made to be heard. The divine attribute of omnipotence makes all this and more clear. [/ QUOTE ] I think BluffThis! fell for quite a bluff him or her/self. This is not even an answer. It's utterly flimsical nonsense.
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#28
11-29-2005, 03:54 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A computer programmer has no trouble interacting with a computer simulation despite existing outside it, so why should it be a problem for god? chez [/ QUOTE ] This is an moronic response. The computer and the computer programmer exist in the same dimensions. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, Chez's answer is by far the most insightful one here, but it is apparently lost on you. I can create my own "universe" in n-dimensional spacetime (not nessisarily 4 dimensional) on a computer. In principle (if the computer memory is big enough), life could evolve in this "computer universe" and have arguments over the existence of a creator. The creator (me) would have no problem halting and inserting "miracles" into the program -- i.e. events that do not follow from the programmed "laws of physics" and initial conditions alone. In fact, it is impossible to rule this out as a possibility for our own universe, and you can even point to evidence for something like it if you can find a miracle...
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#29
11-29-2005, 06:18 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A computer programmer has no trouble interacting with a computer simulation despite existing outside it, so why should it be a problem for god? chez [/ QUOTE ] This is an moronic response. The computer and the computer programmer exist in the same dimensions. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, Chez's answer is by far the most insightful one here, but it is apparently lost on you. I can create my own "universe" in n-dimensional spacetime (not nessisarily 4 dimensional) on a computer. In principle (if the computer memory is big enough), life could evolve in this "computer universe" and have arguments over the existence of a creator. The creator (me) would have no problem halting and inserting "miracles" into the program -- i.e. events that do not follow from the programmed "laws of physics" and initial conditions alone. In fact, it is impossible to rule this out as a possibility for our own universe, and you can even point to evidence for something like it if you can find a miracle... [/ QUOTE ] Wow, a response even more obtuse than Chez's. Awesome! What are you going to do, program the big bang? I would like to see that. Maybe it's already happened, I thought it was a virus but now I am seeing spaceships coming out.
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#30
11-29-2005, 06:59 PM
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Re: if God exists outside of time + space...how can?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A computer programmer has no trouble interacting with a computer simulation despite existing outside it, so why should it be a problem for god? chez [/ QUOTE ] This is an moronic response. The computer and the computer programmer exist in the same dimensions. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, Chez's answer is by far the most insightful one here, but it is apparently lost on you. I can create my own "universe" in n-dimensional spacetime (not nessisarily 4 dimensional) on a computer. In principle (if the computer memory is big enough), life could evolve in this "computer universe" and have arguments over the existence of a creator. The creator (me) would have no problem halting and inserting "miracles" into the program -- i.e. events that do not follow from the programmed "laws of physics" and initial conditions alone. In fact, it is impossible to rule this out as a possibility for our own universe, and you can even point to evidence for something like it if you can find a miracle... [/ QUOTE ] Wow, a response even more obtuse than Chez's. Awesome! What are you going to do, program the big bang? I would like to see that. Maybe it's already happened, I thought it was a virus but now I am seeing spaceships coming out. [/ QUOTE ] Yes -- the big bang (in a suitable theory free of singularity) represents the initial conditions, and the laws of physics evolve the system forward in a well-defined way. The analogy is, in fact, perfect. The fact that you personally do not understand it does not effect the power of the argument.
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