Big pot... call it down?

[tpir90036]

UTG limper who is loose passive as far as i can tell limps, I raise A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 cold callers and the blinds call:

flop (6 players): T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, I raise, MP cold calls (lunatic), LP and blinds fold, UTG calls

turn: (3 players) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks, I bet, MP calls, UTG check-raises, I ???

(i am in no way concerned with MP)
easy laydown?
easy call down?
somewhere in between?

[Oblivious]

Its not easy, but I think you have to call down. Im prepared to see a set of 6s or 2s, but the chance that i could be laying down the best hand to JT or folding a profitable draw against some wacky two pair is too much to allow me to fold in this big pot.

You described the UTG person as a passive player. He is checkraising the turn with two people already committed. I believe he will have 2 pair or bettor here 100% of the time. Unless you think the UTG is loose enough to play T6,62,T2,T4,64,24, I would fold the turn. If you think the UTG player can very well have many of these holdings, then you should call the turn hoping for an Ace or the board to pair. If neither of these events happens on the river, I would fold. I dont care how big the pot is on the river, there is no reason to call for one more bet against this type opponent unless you improve. Well actually there is one reason, and that is if you think theres a chance that your read on the player is wrong. You said that this opponent is "loose passive as far as I can tell" this statement alone probably means you should call the river in this big pot.

[CardSharpCook]

Today I had one guy donk bet the flop, was raised before it got to me with TPTK. Confused, I called. Then the same thing happened on the turn. OK, that's enough for me. I fold. They split the pot with TPQK. Meh? I'm ok with calling down. I'm ok with letting go. I think this is close to EV neutral.

[ QUOTE ]
Today I had one guy donk bet the flop, was raised before it got to me with TPTK. Confused, I called. Then the same thing happened on the turn. OK, that's enough for me. I fold. They split the pot with TPQK. Meh? I'm ok with calling down. I'm ok with letting go. I think this is close to EV neutral.

[/ QUOTE ]
In the situation you described, where it got bet and raised in front of you on the flop and you had TPTK, I wouldve 3 bet it. With TPTK your hand is definitely strong enough to 3 bet the flop, and by taking control of the hand you usually get to escape uncomfortable turn situations like the one you described.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont care how big the pot is on the river, there is no reason to call for one more bet against this type opponent unless you improve.

Well actually there is one reason, and that is if you think theres a chance that your read on the player is wrong. You said that this opponent is "loose passive as far as I can tell" this statement alone probably means you should call the river in this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly helpful. Do you actually read these before you hit 'send'? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, definitely fold the river UI, unless everyone else folds, then maybe call.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont care how big the pot is on the river, there is no reason to call for one more bet against this type opponent unless you improve.

Well actually there is one reason, and that is if you think theres a chance that your read on the player is wrong. You said that this opponent is "loose passive as far as I can tell" this statement alone probably means you should call the river in this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly helpful. Do you actually read these before you hit 'send'? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, definitely fold the river UI, unless everyone else folds, then maybe call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have called many river bets knowing I am dead, but I still had to call that river bet becuz the pot odds I was getting compared to the probability that my read was wrong was favorable.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont care how big the pot is on the river, there is no reason to call for one more bet against this type opponent unless you improve.

Well actually there is one reason, and that is if you think theres a chance that your read on the player is wrong. You said that this opponent is "loose passive as far as I can tell" this statement alone probably means you should call the river in this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly helpful. Do you actually read these before you hit 'send'? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, definitely fold the river UI, unless everyone else folds, then maybe call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have called many river bets knowing I am dead, but I still had to call that river bet becuz the pot odds I was getting compared to the probability that my read was wrong was favorable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I know. You just wrote fold in the 1st sentence, then call in the next.

I'd call the raise, and probably call 1 on the river UI. I might not overcall. Depends on the reads I have on those involved

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont care how big the pot is on the river, there is no reason to call for one more bet against this type opponent unless you improve.

Well actually there is one reason, and that is if you think theres a chance that your read on the player is wrong. You said that this opponent is "loose passive as far as I can tell" this statement alone probably means you should call the river in this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly helpful. Do you actually read these before you hit 'send'? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, definitely fold the river UI, unless everyone else folds, then maybe call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have called many river bets knowing I am dead, but I still had to call that river bet becuz the pot odds I was getting compared to the probability that my read was wrong was favorable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I know. You just wrote fold in the 1st sentence, then call in the next.

I'd call the raise, and probably call 1 on the river UI. I might not overcall. Depends on the reads I have on those involved

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess the message I was trying to convey to the OP was that if his read is 100% accurate then folding this river unimproved would be the right play IMO even in this big pot.