Okay, I guess I just suck at this game.

[jedi]

So, I just entered a Stud MTT at Party and I swear I totally don't understand this game. I can't beleive people are calling me down with as little as a pair of 5s when I'm showing strength the whole way, with multiple draws on my board. Is calling down standard? Maybe after I started showing down no-pair/missed draw hands, people stayed in with that, thinking I'm a maniac, but when I stayed in with high pairs, they caught 2 pair of garbage on me on 7th street.

I'm not getting it, whatever "it" is in stud. Surely I suck at this, that much is clear. What am I not getting?

[TheCroShow]

use the force luke. sorry i could not resist.

how much was the buy-in? at lower levels most players are willing to GAMBOOOOL on their crappy hands, and they certainly take a "bingo" or "roulette" approach to 7stud.

i just started playing stud and find Ashley Adam's book an excellent reference, "Winning 7 Card Stud." It's excellent if you are just starting. Another good one that everyone in this section raves about is 7 Card Stud for Advanced Players.

Only advice I can offer

Why complain when the behavior that you are talking about is what makes playing stud profitable. If everyone played smart and only quality cards, how would anyone be able to win?

[lstream]

[ QUOTE ]

Why complain when the behavior that you are talking about is what makes playing stud profitable

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of the problem is trying out the game in an MTT. People are going to get lucky and beat you with hands they shouldn't even be playing. In a tourney, just one suckout can be fatal. In a cash game, you can take a temporary hit to the chip stack, and know that very likely their bad play will reward you if you hang in and keep playing smart poker.

[jedi]

Buy-in was $20+2 in this MTT. It just seemed like everyone else knew something I didn't. Like whenever I was raising with my broadway straight-flush draw on 3rd street (and 4th) that everyone would stay in with the small pairs. And when I did have the bigger pair, they'd stay in with the small pair and catch 2 small pair when I'd just have the 1 pair. And if they didn't have that, their board was way super scary that I probably missed some value bets on 6th street and checked through several times on 7th street when my 1 pair hand was good.

A little frustrating, but good to know I'm not TOTALLY off my rocker yet.

I have the same problem in stud MTT's and very loose cash games. I tend to do much better when I can get it heads up with an opponent. I know it is better for the long run to be playing a pot multiway with the best of it, but it seems to me that in stud, the equity gets spread out much more than it does in hold'em due to lack of community cards. This means more bad beats.

I know those stud MTT's are beatable though, and that I just haven't learned the proper technique yet. I mean they must be beatable when you have 5 or 6 people chasing you with random starting hands. Even so, given gread odds of 33% equity in a six way pot on 4th, you will still lose 2/3 of the time and if you were jamming the whole way, it can mean losing half your stack or more in a tourney.

For these reasons, I much prefer stud 8/b. Even in multiway pots you can easily have better than 50% equity on 4th street. Having the low possibility to bail you out for half the pot is a great thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MRBAA]

Drawing very thin or dead happens less in stud than in Hold'em. For example, the guy who has 88 when you have KK in he has basically two 8s and perhaps one additional out in terms of straight or flush equity.

But in stud, the same guy has loads of extra outs because he can pair any of his side cards and beat you with two pairs. Of course you can catch a second pair, too and beat him. But it's not likein HE, where a second pair on the board is shared. Plus, since there's an extra BB street, and the cards come one by one he can catch good on fourth -- say he has (98)8 and you have (K6)K
and he now catches a T while you catch a 2. Now he has picked up some help while you have not -- he can afford to take off another card to see if he catches good since if he does he'll have an extra BB street to collect on. Or lets say he catches a second nine -- now he has you beat and has a draw to a f/h in case you do hit a second pair.

I actually play in a stud game on the commuter train which is 1-5 with a $10 max on the river. In that game, players often bet $3 on third and fourth, often making it profitable to chase with draws multiway, since a $6 investment on the first two streets has the potential to yield $20 in bets from multiple opponents on the later streets if you hit.

Of course, chasers abound in stud just like in he -- in low stakes game, people make many more calling than folding errors. But there are times when chasing is more correct than it would be in HE -- particularly on 4th st. vs. the turn.

[jedi]

The one other problem I had in this MTT was paying off the check-raise, even when their board was ragged. I think it's actually a bigger problem in poker for me where I'm so afraid to be bluffed off of a decent hand that I'll call down without thinking, and without improving when all the cards are out.

I don't think this is always bad, as I sometimes have hidden outs in hold em, but I just feeling that I'm a calling station when faced with a late check-raise. Usually, people have it. Do I just call down (because the pot is big) and expect to get beaten? In cash games, this might be okay because of the size of the pot, but in a tournament setting, this type of thing can kill you, especially when the blinds are big.

[TheCroShow]

the general rule of thumb from what i hear, if you suspect you are defeated, get out of the hand, especially if your hand is weak..even if you have 2 pair..i have learned this a lot losing with hands like Jacks up, hell, even Kings up! basically if they have a pair face up, be weary...and if you cannot beat 2pair or 3 of a kind it's not really worth it to pay to find out. playing catch is expensive in 7stud